GEN-MEDIEVAL-L ArchivesArchiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2000-11 > 0975641884
From: "Stewart, Peter" <>
Subject: RE: Renaud de Roucy
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 14:38:04 +1100
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [mailto:]
> Sent: Friday, 1 December 2000 9:04
> Subject: Renaud de Roucy
> In researching Renaud de Roucy b. abt 0931, Roucy(or
> Reims), France; d. 15 March 0973 I have encountered two
> different parentages as follows:
> Ragnvald "the Viking" of Denmark b. abt 0885; d. abt 0925
> (I know it appears that the son was born 6 years after the death
> of the father; but this is from the same source.)
> Herbert II de Vermandois b. abt 0884, Vermandois; d. 23
> February 0943.
> There is also a Hubert of Burgundy which is I would bet
> is Herbert II, although his father is Hubert/Herbert also.
> Does anyone have the correct data on this person.
> Of course I hope the correct parentage is Herbert II
> since his lineage carries me back to Charlemagne.
This one is not going to fall your preferred way: for the children of
Heribert II (Renaud not among them) see Christian Settipani, *La préhistoire
des Capétiens 481 - 987* (Villeneuve d'Ascq, 1993), pp 223-230 and Michel
Bur, *La formation du comté de Champagne v. 950 - v. 1150*, Mémoires des
Annales de l'Est 54 (Nancy, 1977), appendix I, pp 507-513. For the origins
of Renaud, count of Roucy see the latter, pp 134-139 & table 13, and the
According to ES III, 675A (which does not identify his father, & cites Bur
along with sources he also used) your Renaud occurs as early as 923, built
the château at Roucy in 948, and died on 10 May 967 - where did you find the
date 15 March 973? Bur suggests he was son of another Renaud, and either a
half-brother of count Waldricus (Gaudry), whose son Guy was count of
Soissons from 974 to 995, or related to the counts of Anjou.
Perhaps Todd Farmerie will comment on whether there is any evidence that the
elder Renaud came from Denmark.