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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2001-03 > 0985219348


From: Roz Griston <>
Subject: RE: CROWMER-FIENNES c. 1450/ Pogue
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 16:02:28 -0800


thanks P.A.
live and learn..)) it is better to have a correction that to continue
in error.
roz


-----Original Message-----
From:P A MagLOCHLAINN [SMTP:]
Sent:Monday, March 19, 2001 6:42 AM
To:
Subject:Re: CROWMER-FIENNES c. 1450

Dear Roz,

Sorry to correct you, but the word "pog" (noun, feminine gender) is the
perfectly respectable Irish word for "(a) kiss". There is nothing
whatsoever derogatory about it. You can confirm this in any standard
Irish - English lexicon. The cheapest I know is The Oxford Irish
Minidictionary, publishers OUP 1999, ISBN 0-19-860227-8 (RRP in UK
?3.99, in
USA $6.50).

I can only presume you have been misled by the well-known Irish
schoolboy
trick of teaching visitors (the more pompous the better) to repeat the
command "Pog mo thoin", usually by assuring said pompous visitor that
this
was a standard or formal greeting. The word "pig" ("muc" in Irish) is
totally absent from this phrase.

The command, in fact, means "Kiss my arse", and was later adopted by a
very
well-known musical group, in the form Pogue Mahone - so as to have a
secret
irreverent snigger at non-Irish-speaking pseuds in the music industry.
This
was later cut down to the current short form "the Pogues".

This form of humour may conceivably be seen as a feeble echo of the
centuries-old tradition of macaronic songs, rhymes, etc evolved by the
Irish
as a means of poking secret fun at their boorish, grasping landlords,
who
heard and approved the English lines but failed to understand the cruel
satire of the Irish lines, which alternated with them.

Yours cordially,

P A MagLOCHLAINN
in Belfast, Northern Ireland
====================
Roz Griston wrote in message
<>...
>using http://www.alltheweb.com and the "all the words" option i turned
>up 36 hits using the words "pogue homosexual naval term"
>http://www.gay-x.com/abc/gay/marine.html
>certainly is revealing. i will warn you the language is very
"blue/vulgar"
but, pogue is indeed a slang word for homosexuals in the merchant
marine.
>pogue is also a derogatory irish word meaning to kiss a pig's a$$. i
decided to research any further. as pogue is not always a nice word.
is
it?
>roz
(snip)
=====


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