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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2001-04 > 0986151506


From: Roz Griston <>
Subject: RE: After Richard III - Then what????
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 11:58:26 -0700


preon wrote
>"What was the full line of succession at the point Henry VII killed
Richard,
>if Richard didnt get killed.".

WAR wrote
While this is an interesting question, to come up with an answer to it
requires us to first understand the rules, in place at that time,
regarding
succession to the (English) Throne. Unfortunately, at that time
(Bosworth,
1485), there were no rules, nothing codified in Parliamentary Acts or
expressed in Royal decrees, etc. While Scottish Royal succession had
been
defined by an Act of the (Edinburgh) Parliament dated 27 March 1371,
nothing equivalent happened in England until the (London) Parliament
authorized Henry VIII (in the late 1540s) to set the succession any way
he
pleased in his will.

rg/ given that we know the scots rules of succession were codified in
1371 and that henry viii set succession in his will in the late 1540's.
how closely did henry follow the scots example?

prior to henry viii's will: what were major differences between the way
the scots and the english determined succession?

moreover, even if there were no codified rules. there were unwritten
rules. it does appear to in simplistic terms to follow a male
bloodline, although not always the first born son.

i haven't studied the lines of succession to the english/british throne
to know if this was because eldest sons died, or were leapt over for a
"preferred son or nephew".

the wars of the roses, certainly indicates there were several people
who considered themselves to have a valid claim on the throne. many of
the claimants and supporting nobles were killed during these wars.
thereby, reducing the number of future claimants. annulling marriages
and illegitimising children of male bloodlines further reduced even
more claimants to the throne.

i do believe preon's query is valid, but perhaps worded incorrectly.
therefore, let us try this wording.

who were the people living after the battle of stoke in 1487 who could
have made a bloodline claim to henry vii's throne? who of these people
died during henry vii's reign? and what was their cause of death?

To arrange the people alive in 1485 according to a scheme (heirs of the
body without division) that they may not have recognized for a purpose
that
they may not have been aware of (theoretical Royal succession), is
entertaining, but of no practical value. If you want to pursue it, I'd
recommend ignoring the Hull database, with all its errors, and start
with
something like *Nachkommen Eduards III von England* by Johann Lanz.

rg/ i could not find any reference to *Nachkommen Eduards III von
England* by Johann Lanz.
on the www. using just johann lanz i turned up 47 documents. most in
german, some to do with clay pottery.

using http://www.bookfinder.com/ and
http://www.bibliofind.com/

i could find no reference to any book written by johann lanz at these
sites.

however, it appears it might be at: the new york public library.
http://catnyp.nypl.org/search/a

while this book maybe obtainable in new york, or even the USA, i happen
to live in a rural community near vancouver, canada that pretty much
requires a 12 hour return trip to gain a few hours research in the
city.

additionally, it appears that lanz's work(s) are all in german.i think
it is safe to assume that most of the membership of this list is not
fluent in german.

therefore, can you recommend another book or avenue of research to
pursue that would a little more user friendly to the majority of the
people who have an interest in this subject.

citing a reference source that is unobtainable or difficult to read is
not of any great assistance. i can assume the book johann lanz wrote
concerns edward iii of england.

best regards
roz

William Addams Reitwiesner


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