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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2001-04 > 0986158689


From: "Leo van de Pas" <>
Subject: Re: After Richard III - Then what????
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 04:58:09 +0800
References: <01C0BAA3.1006F1A0.r_griston@dccnet.com>


Dear Roz
Those people in line for the throne after Richard III also are in line after
Henry VII and so by following one you have the other. It is all such a wild
goose chase, waste of time.
It may be an interesting list but what are you going to do with it?
The most sensible thing is to trace all descendants of Edward III
for a number of generations, and I have done that already.
Leo van de Pas

----- Original Message -----
From: Roz Griston <>
To: <>
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 2:58 AM
Subject: RE: After Richard III - Then what????


> preon wrote
> >"What was the full line of succession at the point Henry VII killed
> Richard,
> >if Richard didnt get killed.".
>
> WAR wrote
> While this is an interesting question, to come up with an answer to it
> requires us to first understand the rules, in place at that time,
> regarding
> succession to the (English) Throne. Unfortunately, at that time
> (Bosworth,
> 1485), there were no rules, nothing codified in Parliamentary Acts or
> expressed in Royal decrees, etc. While Scottish Royal succession had
> been
> defined by an Act of the (Edinburgh) Parliament dated 27 March 1371,
> nothing equivalent happened in England until the (London) Parliament
> authorized Henry VIII (in the late 1540s) to set the succession any way
> he
> pleased in his will.
>
> rg/ given that we know the scots rules of succession were codified in
> 1371 and that henry viii set succession in his will in the late 1540's.
> how closely did henry follow the scots example?
>
> prior to henry viii's will: what were major differences between the way
> the scots and the english determined succession?
>
> moreover, even if there were no codified rules. there were unwritten
> rules. it does appear to in simplistic terms to follow a male
> bloodline, although not always the first born son.
>
> i haven't studied the lines of succession to the english/british throne
> to know if this was because eldest sons died, or were leapt over for a
> "preferred son or nephew".
>
> the wars of the roses, certainly indicates there were several people
> who considered themselves to have a valid claim on the throne. many of
> the claimants and supporting nobles were killed during these wars.
> thereby, reducing the number of future claimants. annulling marriages
> and illegitimising children of male bloodlines further reduced even
> more claimants to the throne.
>
> i do believe preon's query is valid, but perhaps worded incorrectly.
> therefore, let us try this wording.
>
> who were the people living after the battle of stoke in 1487 who could
> have made a bloodline claim to henry vii's throne? who of these people
> died during henry vii's reign? and what was their cause of death?
>
> To arrange the people alive in 1485 according to a scheme (heirs of the
> body without division) that they may not have recognized for a purpose
> that
> they may not have been aware of (theoretical Royal succession), is
> entertaining, but of no practical value. If you want to pursue it, I'd
> recommend ignoring the Hull database, with all its errors, and start
> with
> something like *Nachkommen Eduards III von England* by Johann Lanz.
>
> rg/ i could not find any reference to *Nachkommen Eduards III von
> England* by Johann Lanz.
> on the www. using just johann lanz i turned up 47 documents. most in
> german, some to do with clay pottery.
>
> using http://www.bookfinder.com/ and
> http://www.bibliofind.com/
>
> i could find no reference to any book written by johann lanz at these
> sites.
>
> however, it appears it might be at: the new york public library.
> http://catnyp.nypl.org/search/a
>
> while this book maybe obtainable in new york, or even the USA, i happen
> to live in a rural community near vancouver, canada that pretty much
> requires a 12 hour return trip to gain a few hours research in the
> city.
>
> additionally, it appears that lanz's work(s) are all in german.i think
> it is safe to assume that most of the membership of this list is not
> fluent in german.
>
> therefore, can you recommend another book or avenue of research to
> pursue that would a little more user friendly to the majority of the
> people who have an interest in this subject.
>
> citing a reference source that is unobtainable or difficult to read is
> not of any great assistance. i can assume the book johann lanz wrote
> concerns edward iii of england.
>
> best regards
> roz
>
> William Addams Reitwiesner
>
>
>

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