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From: "Annie Natalelli-Waloszek" <>
Subject: Tr: Tomlinson, Elizabeth PART I
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 13:02:13 +0200


hmmmm Mr Reed, what if you've hit on something, intentionally or unawares... that I did indeed miss, but it doesn't answer Ken's intelligent question about why Lord Dudley was so generous (despite his own pressing financial problems) with Mr Bagley, if Bagley's wife was no kin of Dudley's... for instance, why he included John Bagley in the lease of a manor in 1616, along with Dud & George Guest, husband of one of Dudley's illegitimate daughters..

Quite right! THANK YOU for makinig the comparison ...

perhaps we've all been missing something...

nepotis ex filia means grandson through the daughter...

so nepotis ex matre, means grandson through the mother... Elizabeth's mother... not Elizabeth...

yet, if indeed the intention was to say that Edw was the son of another dau of Elizabeth's mother, it would have said nepotis ex sororis... I think you can concur...

That there were no brothers is yet to be proven... what do you say about the other persons named in the admon index, including a Phillip Thomlinson...

Also, can you cite to me the law stating that neither illegitimate children nor their children, can inherit? the detail might suffice to convince me, after all...
-----Message d'origine-----
De : Reedpcgen <>
À : <>
Date : jeudi 5 avril 2001 10:22
Objet : Re: Tomlinson, Elizabeth PART I


[Ken wrote:]
>There was no >estate ... this woman had no money for the love of Pete ... what
is a few >pounds here and there...>>

(1) There was an estate, hence the administration granted in the PCC. It did
not have to be large, just LEGAL.

(2) There were no restrictions on making bequests to friends or legitimate
children. That had NOTHING to do with the next heir by law. Ken, you have
definitely misinterpreted this. We are talking matters of law.

(3) I checked the original grant of administration again to get another look at
the usage.

ON THE SAME PAGE [PCC Admon, Act Book, f. 107 (FHL #93,252)], I found the
administration of Thomazine Gray, widow, of Ashwell, Hertford.

The administration was granted to Andrew Kniveton, Baronet,

"nepoti ex filia Thomazine Gray"

or "grandson by way of the daughter of Thomazine," the grant further explaining
that his mother Mary, her daughter, was already deceased.

Sir Andrew Kniveton, Baronet, of Mercaston, Derby, d.s.p. 1669. He was son of
Sir Gilbert Kniveton, Bt., by his first wife, Mary Grey, daughter and coheir of
Andrew Grey of Hinxworth, Herts. [d. 13 Jan. 1614/15, @ 85, MI], by his wife
Thomazine Pascall/Paschall [m. 7 Jan. 1584/5, Hinxworth], daughter of John
Paschall [III] of Much Baddow, Essex [d. 1580/1] by his wife Mary Kebyll.

This administration was granted 17 June 1635, a previous grant being dated 12
Nov. 1630.

NOTE WELL: If Edward Bagley were GRANDSON of Elizabeth Tomlinson by way of his
mother, the phrase would have read "nepoti ex filia" as it did here, on that
same page. "nepoti ex matre" neans nephew out of/by way of his mother--no
ambiguity.

Paul


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