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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2001-06 > 0992539373


From: "Todd A. Farmerie" <>
Subject: Re: Mohammed the Prophet
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:22:53 -0600
References: <01c0f4c1$a7241880$LocalHost@fti/62hzcyc>


[not this again . . . ]

This line is wrong on a number of levels. Some of them I will
address now, and some after I dig out my muslim material, but
some of it I can address now.


Annie Natalelli-Waloszek wrote:
>
> 16 Muhammad III Abu I Kasim Al MUTAMID b:1040 + I'Tamid (exSLAVE) b: ABT.
> 1045
> 17 Zaida Princess DENIA b:1071+AlfonsoVI"Valiant"ofCastile&Leon b:1040 d: 29
> Jun 1109

Contemporary arabic sources describe Zaida as daughter-in-law of
the ruler of Seville, not his daughter, and any attempt to
identify her paternity has not moved beyond the level of wild
guesswork. (Any assignment of her mother is completely without
foundation, as mothers were almost never identified, even for the
rulers.)

> 18 Sancha DE CASTILE b: ABT. 1145 + Rodrigo Gonsalez
> 18 "El Franco" DE LARA b: ABT. 1145

Zaida was baptized as Isabel, but it is far from universally
accepted that she is identical with the Queen Isabel who was
mother of Sancha Alfonso, wife of Rodrigo Gonzalez.

> 19 Rodrigo Rodriquez DE LARA b: ABT. 1165 + Garcia DE ATRANGA b: ABT.
> 1165

This "Rodrigo Rodriguez de Lara" is a genealogical fiction,
invented by Salazar y Castro to link Sancha Rodriguez, who he
wrongly thought to be a Lara, with Rodrigo Gonzalez. (Earlier
reconstructions made Sancha daughter of Rodrigo Gonzalez, but
chronology demanded an additional generation.) In fact, Rodrigo
Gonzalez and Sancha Alfonso had two children, a son who entered
the church, and a daughter married to the Count of Urgel, as his
second wife. By her, the Count of Urgel had a son who died
without issue, and a daughter married, as second wife, to the
Count of Haro. By her, the Count of Haro had one known son, who
in turn had one known son, at which point the line fades into the
minor nobility. There are no known descendants of Sancha beyond
this point.

If a valid descent is to be traced from Queen Isabel (and if the
recent hypothesis is correct, from Zaida) it must be done through
Sancha's sister Elvira (II), Queen of Sicily, whose descendants
include Kings Edward V and Henry VIII of England.

> 20 Sancha Rodriquez DE LARA b: ABT. 1185 + Gonsalo Ruiz II DE GIRON b: ABT.
> 1185

Sancha Rodriguez has been shown by Jaime de Salazar Acha to have
been daughter of Rodrigo Fernandez de Torono, and has no known
relationship to the Lara.

> Also, according to Sandoval she died in childbirth on the 12.9.1099. She's
> buried in Sahagun under the inscription "H.R. Regina Elisabeth, uxor regis
> Adefonsi, filia Benabet Regis Sevillae, quae prius Zayda, fuit vocata"
> (cited by marin guzman)

This inscription like most of the royal inscriptions of the
period) is not contemporary, and cannot be trusted. There is a
similar inscription for Queen Isabella, so if one accepts the
validity of the inscriptions, one must reject the identity of
Queen Isabella with Zaida, and thus any possibility of a descent
from Zaida.

> & her children, Sancho & Sancha...

Zaida's only known child was Sancho. Under the theory that she
was identical to a unique Queen Isabel, she was also mother of
Sancha and Elvira (II).

> & how to get from Beatrice to Castile b.1242, to Elinor de Castille,
> married in 1254, so probably born abt 1235-40...who seems a sibling or
> cousin, & contemporary...

Half-aunt. Eleanor was daughter of Fernando III of Castile by
his second wife, while Beatrice was daughter of Alfonso X, son of
Fernando III by his first wife.

taf

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