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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2001-06 > 0992541050


From: "D. Spencer Hines" <>
Subject: Re: Mohammed the Prophet
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 18:50:50 +0100
References: <01c0f4c1$a7241880$LocalHost@fti/62hzcyc>, <3B28F2EC.408C1889@interfold.com>


Yep.

This Zaida garbage is still in circulation.

It has been shot down numerous times on SGM over the past FIVE YEARS.

This twaddle has probably been picked up from a careless, inaccurate
website and swallowed ---- hook, line and sinker.

P. T. Barnum was right:

"There's a sucker born every minute." Phineas Taylor Barnum [1810-1891]

And how they DO congregate in Genealogy!
--

D. Spencer Hines

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing." -- Attributed to Edmund Burke [1729-1797]

Sol Disinfectus Optimus Est. Peccatoris Justificatio Absque
Paenitentia, Legem Destruit Moralem.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of
in your philosophy." ---- William Shakespeare [1564-1616] The Tragedy of
Hamlet, Prince of Denmark, Act I, Scene V, Line 166-167

All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you kindly.

All original material contained herein is copyright and property of the
author. It may be quoted only in discussions on this forum and with an
attribution to the author, unless permission is otherwise expressly
given, in writing.

Vires et Honor

"Todd A. Farmerie" <> wrote in message
news:...

| [not this again . . . ]
|
| This line is wrong on a number of levels. Some of them I will
| address now, and some after I dig out my muslim material, but
| some of it I can address now.
|
|
| Annie Natalelli-Waloszek wrote:
| >
| > 16 Muhammad III Abu I Kasim Al MUTAMID b:1040 + I'Tamid (exSLAVE)
b: ABT.
| > 1045
| > 17 Zaida Princess DENIA b:1071+AlfonsoVI"Valiant"ofCastile&Leon
b:1040 d: 29
| > Jun 1109
|
| Contemporary arabic sources describe Zaida as daughter-in-law of
| the ruler of Seville, not his daughter, and any attempt to
| identify her paternity has not moved beyond the level of wild
| guesswork. (Any assignment of her mother is completely without
| foundation, as mothers were almost never identified, even for the
| rulers.)
|
| > 18 Sancha DE CASTILE b: ABT. 1145 + Rodrigo Gonsalez
| > 18 "El Franco" DE LARA b: ABT. 1145
|
| Zaida was baptized as Isabel, but it is far from universally
| accepted that she is identical with the Queen Isabel who was
| mother of Sancha Alfonso, wife of Rodrigo Gonzalez.
|
| > 19 Rodrigo Rodriquez DE LARA b: ABT. 1165 + Garcia DE ATRANGA b:
ABT.
| > 1165
|
| This "Rodrigo Rodriguez de Lara" is a genealogical fiction,
| invented by Salazar y Castro to link Sancha Rodriguez, who he
| wrongly thought to be a Lara, with Rodrigo Gonzalez. (Earlier
| reconstructions made Sancha daughter of Rodrigo Gonzalez, but
| chronology demanded an additional generation.) In fact, Rodrigo
| Gonzalez and Sancha Alfonso had two children, a son who entered
| the church, and a daughter married to the Count of Urgel, as his
| second wife. By her, the Count of Urgel had a son who died
| without issue, and a daughter married, as second wife, to the
| Count of Haro. By her, the Count of Haro had one known son, who
| in turn had one known son, at which point the line fades into the
| minor nobility. There are no known descendants of Sancha beyond
| this point.
|
| If a valid descent is to be traced from Queen Isabel (and if the
| recent hypothesis is correct, from Zaida) it must be done through
| Sancha's sister Elvira (II), Queen of Sicily, whose descendants
| include Kings Edward V and Henry VIII of England.
|
| > 20 Sancha Rodriquez DE LARA b: ABT. 1185 + Gonsalo Ruiz II DE GIRON
b: ABT.
| > 1185
|
| Sancha Rodriguez has been shown by Jaime de Salazar Acha to have
| been daughter of Rodrigo Fernandez de Torono, and has no known
| relationship to the Lara.
|
| > Also, according to Sandoval she died in childbirth on the
12.9.1099. She's
| > buried in Sahagun under the inscription "H.R. Regina Elisabeth, uxor
regis
| > Adefonsi, filia Benabet Regis Sevillae, quae prius Zayda, fuit
vocata"
| > (cited by marin guzman)
|
| This inscription like most of the royal inscriptions of the
| period) is not contemporary, and cannot be trusted. There is a
| similar inscription for Queen Isabella, so if one accepts the
| validity of the inscriptions, one must reject the identity of
| Queen Isabella with Zaida, and thus any possibility of a descent
| from Zaida.
|
| > & her children, Sancho & Sancha...
|
| Zaida's only known child was Sancho. Under the theory that she
| was identical to a unique Queen Isabel, she was also mother of
| Sancha and Elvira (II).
|
| > & how to get from Beatrice to Castile b.1242, to Elinor de
Castille,
| > married in 1254, so probably born abt 1235-40...who seems a sibling
or
| > cousin, & contemporary...
|
| Half-aunt. Eleanor was daughter of Fernando III of Castile by
| his second wife, while Beatrice was daughter of Alfonso X, son of
| Fernando III by his first wife.
|
| taf


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