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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2001-06 > 0993684591


From: "Leo van de Pas" <>
Subject: Re: Plantagenet Correct Usage?
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 07:29:51 +0800
References: <D0FBF80FC025304D.DB73FF9B6A35192C.25B868D6681F3E72@lp.airnews.net>, <vi4_6.57$wt2.4215@eagle.america.net>, <vULn3AAcGPO7EwQ2@mowfam.freeserve.co.uk> <mGr_6.39$of3.2468@eagle.america.net> <00c101c0ff4f$6b17e040$0101a8c0@rosie>


Dear Rosie
This is a fascinating subject and many years ago a Josephine Tey wrote a
book "The Daughter of Time". The title comes from "Truth is the daughter of
Time". In it all knowledge about the two princes is investigated and she
comes to the conclusion that they died (not necessarily murdered I think)
during the reign of Henry VII. For a period her findings were regarded as
acceptable and then I believe a few rumblings emerged against her findings.
In any case it is a fascinating book to read.
Best wishes
Leo van de Pas



----- Original Message -----
From: Rosie Bevan <>
To: <>
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 5:23 AM
Subject: Re: Plantagenet Correct Usage?


> Yet another interesting post, Spencer.
>
> Just curious about a couple of statements.
>
> If Henry VII could produc young Prince Edward, why didn't he? AND
> what sources do you have which indicate they were alive during the reign
of
> Henry VII?
>
> Cheers
>
> Rosie
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "D. Spencer Hines" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 8:47 AM
> Subject: Re: Plantagenet Correct Usage?
>
>
> > Fair Enough. Thanks for the additional facts.
> >
> > However, the *battle* is known to History as the Battle of Stoke, *not*
> > the 'Battle of East Stoke'.
> >
> > Fought on 16 June 1487, it led to the death of Lincoln, who had led the
> > rebellion against Henry VII.
> >
> > This was reportedly the last occasion upon which a reigning King of
> > England was required to take the field in person as the
> > Commander-in-Chief and the field commander, against a rival claimant to
> > his throne.
> >
> > So, the Battle of Stoke is a distinct watershed in that respect.
> >
> > Several further grace notes on Lambert Simnel. He was actually the
> > ten-year-old son of an Oxford carpenter, who posed as Edward
> > ['Plantagenet'], Earl of Warwick.
> >
> > This was rather foolish, because Edward was still alive at the time, a
> > twelve-year-old boy ---- held prisoner in the Tower ---- and could be
> > produced and displayed by Henry VII, whenever he so wished.
> >
> > However, foolish as all this may look to us in retrospect ---- from the
> > safe and secure perspective of over 500 years ---- Lambert Simnel was a
> > real and present threat to Henry Tudor's throne. He was actually
> > crowned as King Edward VI in Dublin, by the Anglo-Irish, on 24 May 1487.
> > --
> >
> > D. Spencer Hines
> >
> > Lux et Veritas et Libertas
> >
> > "Much have I travelled in the realms of gold, And many goodly states and
> > kingdoms seen; Round many western islands have I been, Which bards in
> > fealty to Apollo hold." -- John Keats [1795-1821] -- Poems [1817] -- "On
> > First Looking Into Chapman's Homer"
> >
> > All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you kindly.
> >
> > All original material contained herein is copyright and property of the
> > author. It may be quoted only in discussions on this forum and with an
> > attribution to the author, unless permission is otherwise expressly
> > given, in writing.
> >
> > Vires et Honor.
> >
> > "David Mowbray" <> wrote in message
> > news:...
> >
> > | In article <vi4_6.57$>, D. Spencer Hines
> > | <> writes
> > | <big snip>
> >
> > | >Lambert Simnel [circa 1475-1535] --- incompetent that he was ---
> > | >pretended to be Edward [1475-1499 Executed, Tower Hill] 18th Earl of
> > | >Warwick [Son of George, Duke of Clarence --- he who was allegedly
> > | >drowned in the Malmsey Butt]. --- Lambert was routed at Stoke on 16
> > June
> > | ^^^^^^^
> > | >1487. His supporters were either killed or pardoned. Lambert at
> > least
> > | >survived after his folly as a Yorkist stooge and was put to work as a
> > | >scullery boy, where he supposedly did some useful work, in Henry VII
> > and
> > | >Henry VIII's kitchens --- and lived until 1535.
> > | <big snip>
> > |
> > | Just to clarify matters, that should be East Stoke, a village just
> > south
> > | of Newark in Nottinghamshire and not to be confused with the several
> > | other places in England with Stoke in their name.
> > |
> > | Adjacent to River Trent, the blood from the battle is said to have
> > | flowed into the river.
> > | --
> > | David Mowbray | Mowbray One-Name Study (G.o.ONS 986). Also seeking |
> > | Cheltenham, UK | HERBERT (GLS); TANK (UK) + SCHNEIDER in WUE/GER
> >
> >
>
>


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