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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2001-06 > 0993900610


From: "Mark Stafford" <>
Subject: Re: History Syllabi (Was: Plantagenet Correct Usage?)
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 13:30:10 +0200
References: <l05%6.446$1o3.17890@eagle.america.net>, <9hivhi$cpp$1@nereid.worldonline.nl>, <2n8%6.474$1o3.19162@eagle.america.net>


A good reply,

"D. Spencer Hines" <> wrote in message
news:2n8%6.474$...
> Anyone who thinks that studying the British History of the 1930's is
> "boring" ---- is an unbridled idiot ---- and should probably be
> sterilised and have his driver's license taken away from him.


I agree (not with the sterilising though - a bit OTT), but try convincing a
class of 35 teenagers of that - especially when the history isn't joined up.
Everything was taught in isolation, Britain of the 30's was hardly ever
related to the rest of the world and how the changes there were effecting
other nations, and never, ever related to today and the situation Britain is
in.

Yes, some of the class linked their teachings together and it 'clicked' and
some of the class have gone on to become motor mechanics and brick layers
with little interest in History and no thought of those classes, but they
still spout crap in the pubs about things they should know better about -
and would - if the history had been linked together just that bit more. I
also agree this is their loss, and to a large extent their fault, if some of
us can do it why not all? But some people just aren't academically minded, -
they're still great to hang out with at the pub though.

> Understanding Ramsay MacDonald, Stanley Baldwin, Neville Chamberlain,
> Winston Churchill, Sidney and Beatrice Webb ---- just to pick several
> important figures ---- is quite essential to an understanding of _Why
> England Slept_ ---- as the young John Fitzgerald Kennedy put it, for his
> Senior Thesis in History at Harvard.
>
> Unless you understand _Why England Slept_ you can't understand Munich,
> why World War II began and unfolded as it did ---- and why there are
> still all of these scruffy little socialists and ragamuffins in Britain
> to this day.
>
> Read Freeman J. Dyson's _Weapons And Hope_ for some profound insights
> into all this.
>
> Who is Freeman Dyson? A Brilliant Brit ---- who at least used to be at
> the Institute for Advanced Study, on Einstein Drive in Princeton.


Dyson Sphere's yeah? I've heard of him, never read the book, thanks for the
recommendation.

> _Au contraire_ to the flaccid opinings of some, Hines did speak up at
> the time in the 1960's, 1970's, 1980's and 1990's and yes, he did fight
> the idiots who were/are spouting and preaching codswallop and
> balderdash ---- and he is still fighting them ---- thank you very much.


I apologise for my comments, it was wrong to make assumptions - keep up the
good fight.

> Not every member of every generation is damaged goods ---- to be sure.


If you'd made that clear in your first post I might not have responded so
harshly, but you did appear to right off millions of people - and you still
do so below, but let's not dwell on that... everyone has opinions.

> I'm actually quite optimistic about many of the folks who have been born
> since ----- say 1973 ---- or so. They are most impressive, on the
> whole, as a generation ----- or two.


Well, that saves my sisters, but I still fall into your educational black
hole :-) - that's if your view of the US education system can be transfered
to the UK anyway.

> The Coefficient Of Flakiness [COF] is actually MUCH higher for those
> born, in the United States, from say about 1943 through 1973, or so.
> But let's face it, that's a spread of *30 years* ---- and truckloads,
> shiploads and trainloads indeed of ---- DAMAGED GOODS are among them.
> Not all are tainted.
>
> Further, I don't believe this TWADDLE that:
>
> "I can't help it. I was just educated under the system that was in
> existence at the time. So, you can't blame ME!"
>
> MORE COWARDLY ---- "I AM A VICTIM" ---- THINKING.
>
> Pathetic Passive Pogues.
> ------------------

I think it's "twaddle" too, but then I'm here on SHM aren't I? It's the
others, those who left high school thinking their education was complete
that have been let down, history was not emphasised enough to them, they
never learnt it's lessons, this is the greatest tragedy.

<snip interesting Yale quote and long sig>

Mark.
(who will now try to post something OT to make up for this...)



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