GEN-MEDIEVAL-L ArchivesArchiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2001-08 > 0996738889
From: Renia <>
Subject: Re: Joan Holland
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 08:54:49 +0100
References: <email@example.com>, <8BE97.firstname.lastname@example.org>, <email@example.com>
A Tsar Is Born wrote:
> "D. Spencer Hines" <> wrote in message
> > The Black Prince's wife is usually simply described as Joan, The Fair
> > Maid of Kent or The Princess of Wales. She was a startling beauty.
> > But she also appears as Countess of Kent and Countess of Salisbury.
> > Froissart has a good deal on her. She is, of course, the mother of
> > Richard II ---- so, she was the Queen Mother too.
> She was never Queen, so she was never Queen Mother.
> The title was not in use then, to be sure, but the title Queen was, and no
> one ever used it of Joan of Kent. She was Princess Dowager of Wales. (But I
> don't think that title was ever used until Henry VIII devised it for his
> former wife.)
> But if the title Queen Mother had existed, it would not have been used of
> Joan by current criteria, or the criteria of any state I can think of.
> Napoleon's mother was never Queen Mother.
> Franz Josef's mother was never Queen Mother.
> Karl's mother was never Queen Mother.
> George III's mother was never Queen Mother.
> Victoria's mother was never Queen Mother.
> You have to be Queen before you can be Queen Mother.
> Sad really.
> Jean Coeur de Lapin
The style, Queen Mother, is not a title. It is used for a dowager queen, that
is, the widow of a king, who is also the reigning sovereign's mother.