Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2001-08 > 0998417403

From: "D. Spencer Hines" <>
Subject: Re: Forte Posce Animum F/U - O/T
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 19:10:03 +0100
References: <>

Yes, it's _Fortem Posce Animum_.

Did you notice what I said here?

| > The current Lord Saye and Sele, [assuming he is still living] Nathaniel
| > Thomas Allen Fiennes, 21st Lord Saye and Sele, born 1920, dropped
| > Twisleton-Wykeham from his surname in 1965. ......


"For by diligent perusing the actes of great men, by considering all the circumstances of them, by composing Counseiles and Meanes with events, a man may seem to have lived in all ages, to have been present at all enterprises, to be more strongly confirmed in Judgement, to have attained a greater experience than the longest life can possibly afford."

John Hayward, __The Lives of the III Norman Kings of England, William the First, William the Second and Henry I__, London, 1612, Preface

All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you kindly. All original material contained herein is copyright and property of the author. It may be quoted only in discussions on this forum and with an attribution to the author, unless permission is otherwise expressly given, in writing.

D. Spencer Hines

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Vires et Honor.

"Paul Moynagh" <> wrote in message news:...
| Firstly, my belated thanks to those who replied to my query 3
| weeks ago about this motto. I have now discovered that Lt Col
| Webb's father has Twistleton-Wykham-Fiennes blood on his
| maternal side, which is presumably why his family used the
| motto. As Adrian pointed out it is used by a number of
| families, but interestingly they may translate it
| differently. The Webb connection seems to be to the baronet's
| branch (currently Sir Ranulf T-W-F, an intrepid if not always
| successful arctic explorer) whose preferred translation is
| 'Look for a brave spirit' which I have been told is also how
| the Webbs like it. These T-W-Fiennes are presumably related
| to the Saye and Sele Fiennes. Same latin, but as Spencer
| tells us, the S&S Fiennes' vernacular version differs. Posce
| is clearly a pesky word to translate!
| When the latin motto is the same for different families, is
| there any general genealogical mileage to be made out of
| differing translations?
| On the subject of family mottos, I find most are rather bland
| and 'goody goody'. My mother's Scottish border Dinwiddie
| family one ('Sunt Hostes Mei' = So be All my Enemies) is
| meant to frighten - they were a pretty rough lot. Their
| crest, an upside down severed head with a 'withy' stuck
| through its mouth, illustrates the warning. So 'posce' all
| who cross my path!
| On 4 Aug 2001 Paul Moynagh wrote ('Fortem Posce Animum' thread) :
| > Spencer's Latin tags / mottos usually pass me by, but this one
| > coincidentally has been puzzling me since I saw it recently on a Devon
| > church memorial plaque for a deceased Lt Col Webb (British army). I would
| > most grateful to learn its origin, and given my rusty school Latin, an
| > authoritative translation. As far as I can ascertain Webb was not
| > armigerous, nor is it the motto of any british regiment.
| >
| The same day "D. Spencer Hines" replied:
| > Surely. Happy To Help.
| > There are several translations of _Fortem Posce Animum_, but the one I
| > prefer is:
| >
| > "Ask For A Brave Spirit".
| >
| > It is the Family Motto of the Lords Saye and Sele ---- among other
| > things. FIENNES is the surname ---- one of them. The British actors
| > and brothers, Ralph and Joseph Fiennes are members of this family,
| > descended from a younger son of the 16th Baron Saye and Sele.
| >
| > The current Lord Saye and Sele, [assuming he is still living] Nathaniel
| > Thomas Allen Fiennes, 21st Lord Saye and Sele, born 1920, dropped
| > Twisleton-Wykeham from his surname in 1965. ......
| and also on the same day, Adrian Channing added:
| > Fortem Posce Animum=
| >
| > Pray for a brave soul
| >
| > The motto has been used by the families of Crampton; Fiennes; Fynney;
| > Heriot; Twistleton-Wykenham-Fiennes and Philimore and possibly others, but
| > I don't know if it dates to our medeival period.
| >
| > Don't know why Lt Col Webb should use it.
| --
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Paul Moynagh

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