Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2001-10 > 1003444453

From: "Chris & Tom Tinney, Sr." <>
Subject: Re: TRUE and TESTED FACTS; (was re: Children of Zedekiah).
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 15:34:13 -0700
References: <>

A careful reading would show that the
rather linear course in this study, of
Irish heraldry ONLY, is due to the
alleged combination of "Priesthood"
[from Semitic origins], PLUS "Royalty".

Arthur Murata wrote:

>--- "Chris & Tom Tinney, Sr." <>
>>[The art of music, both vocal and instrumental,
>>occupies a high position in the Bible. Previous
>>to the time of David, the music of the Hebrews
>>seems to have been of the simplest character,
>>as direct efforts to cultivate music among them
>>appear first in connexion with the schools of the
>>prophets, founded by Samuel. Under David's
>>direction not less than four thousand musicians,
>>i.e. more than the tenth part of the tribe of Levi,
>>praised the Lord with "instruments" in the service
>>of the temple. A select body of two hundred and
>>eighty-eight trained musicians led this chorus of
>>voices, one person being placed as leader over a
>>section consisting of twelve singers.]
>> From a historical perspective, you will note
>>two parallel items; namely:
>>"efforts to cultivate music among them
>>appear first in connexion with the schools of the
>>prophets, founded by Samuel." AND "This
>>eastern princess was married to King
>>Herremon on condition, made by this notable
>>patriarch, that he should abandon his former
>>religion, and build a college for the prophets."
>>"David's direction [of] not less than four thousand
>>musicians" AND "that this royal party
>>brought with them many remarkable things.
>>Among these was the harp, . . ." To do an
>>intelligent, scholarly and critical review of this
>>connection would involve a thorough comparative
>>study of Irish records and [ the verses of
>>Hebrew Scripture (including the Psalm
>>titles and words such as " selah ")
>>[which] are annotated with . . .musical
>>The Law of Arms in Medieval England
>>suggests " Heraldry's origins are unclear.
>>Various authors have posited Roman
>>standards, Teutonic totems, and Frankish
>>imperial seals as heraldry's ancestors."
>>Others suggest that "Heraldry is not an
>>invention of the Middle Ages but a
>>continuation of identification used by the
>>Tribes [of Israel] during the exodus
>>from Egypt."
>>The discussion under hand suggests any
>>Irish "Coat of Arms" would have derived
>>from a combination of "Priesthood" plus
>>Royalty "Coat of Arms". [ The institution
>>of David and of Solomon continued till
>>the Babylonish captivity.] See:
>>Symbolism of the Priesthood/Mediation
>>Suggested ancient origins come from
>>The Pearl of Great Price "Book of Abraham"
>>[Fig. 1. . . . Abraham, sitting upon Pharaoh's
>>throne, had a crown upon his head,
>>representing the Priesthood, as emblematical
>>of the grand Presidency in Heaven;
>>with the scepter of justice and judgment
>>in his hand.]
>>[The use of symbols in battle, both
>>to assist identification and to inspire
>>awe, is ancient. The term "heraldry"
>>tends today to be used in a strict sense
>>for hereditary symbols displayed
>>primarily on shields and flags, probably
>>from around the end of the eleventh
>>century ~ but in its origins the system
>>may be readily recognised as dating
>>from biblical times. "Every man of
>>the children of Israel shall pitch by his
>>own standard, with the ensign of their
>>father's house." (The Book of Numbers,
>>Chapter ii, verse 34).
>You seem to be following a rather linear course in the
>study of heraldry. Its purpose, as you state, is as ancient
>as stratification and war in human society. Within the
>society, the upper class desires to be recognizd as such
>and to display the approved regalia. The lower classes are
>shown what, to them, is forbidden fruit but know what to
>look for in otherwise unknown individuals whose status must
>be recognized immediately. In war obviously we are talking
>about standards that both identify and motivate the
>warriors on each side. Thus one fights "for the flag"
>which, in reality, is only a piece of cloth. But cultural
>anthropology and psychology tell us that reality is much
>more than what is concrete and measurable. Consider
>heraldry that has existed in societies that did not merge
>with those of Europe: China, Japan, the Northwest Coast
>Indians of Canada and the United States, the Natchez
>Confederacy, the Inca Empire, and so forth. I would no more
>assume a direct evolutionary line from ancient Semitic
>tribal standards to modern European heraldry than I would
>from those same Semitic lines to the Kwakiutl people of
>British Columbia whose heraldic emblems and standards are
>usually mistaken for "art" alone. Best, Bronwen Edwards
>>Later Herodotus wrote "And to them is
>>allowed the invention of three things,
>>which have come into use among the
>>Greeks: for the Carians seem to be the
>>first who put crests upon their helmets
>>and sculptured devices upon their shields."
>>(Clio ยง 171). . . .]
>>Respectfully yours,
>>Tom Tinney, Sr.
>>Genealogy and Family History Internet Web Directory
>>"Free Coverage of the Genealogy World in a Nutshell"
>>Who's Who in America, Millennium Edition [54th] -
>>Who's Who In Genealogy and Heraldry, [both editions]
>>Bryant Smith wrote:
>>> (Nathaniel Taylor) wrote in
>>>>"Todd A. Farmerie" <> wrote:
>>>>>Mr. Tinney quoted:
>>>>>>"... it is a well-known fact that
>>>>>>the royal arms of Ireland is the harp of David,
>>>>>>and has been for 2,500 years"
>>>>>There was no such thing as a "royal arms" 2500 years
>>>>Whenever I see the words "it is a well-known fact
>>that...", I assume that
>>>>what follows is (a) false, or, at best, without
>>foundation; and/or (b)
>>>>little-known, regardless of its veracity.
>>>>Nat Taylor
>>>My favorite in that genre is still Breasted's
>>"undoubtedly ...".
>>>Whenever he had no evidence, he would write "undoubtedly
>>>Bryant Smith
>>>Playa Palo Seco
>>>Costa Rica
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>Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.

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