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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2001-11 > 1004745138


From: "pennyedwards" <>
Subject: Re: SEGRAVES FOR DUMMIES (WAS: Stephen de Segrave)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 23:52:18 -0000
References: <006b01c163c2$7423e800$65119fd4@oemcomputer>


Comment from

NICHOLAS DE SEGRAVE, 1st Lord Segrave, of Segrave, co. Leicester, son and
heir of Gilbert de Segrave, and grandson of Stephen de Segrave, was Knighted
1 Aug 1263, summoned to Montfort's Parliament 24 Dec 1264, and to Shrewsbury
28 June, 1283. He was summoned to Parliament as Lord Segrave 24 June, 1295.
He died that year, leaving a son,

JOHN, 2nd Lord Segrave, b. ca. 1256; m. 1269-70, Christian, dau. of Sir Hugh
de Plessetis, and d. 1325. His son,

STEPHEN, 3rd Lord Segrave, d. soon after his father, leaving by *Alice his
wife, a son,

JOHN, 4th Lord Segrave, b. 1315; m. ante 15 Dec. 1338, Margaret, Duchess of
Norfolk, dau. and eventually sole heiress of Thomas of Brotherton, Earl of
Norfolk, 5th son of EDWARD I. He d.s.p.m. 1352. His widow was created, 29
Sept. 1397, Duchess of Norfolk and d. 24 Marc h, 1399-1400.

Note - *Again there is no reference to Alice's parents, as least we know who
were in-laws were, this might give you a lead.
I do not understand the rest of the problem unless you state what you are
exactly looking for.

Bye for now,

Penelope Jane
Noblesse Oblige


Chris Phillips <> wrote in message
news:006b01c163c2$7423e800$...
> Bryant Smith wrote:
> > But there are a number of unanswered questions.
> > John son of Nicholas died 1325.
> > His brother Nicholas died 1321.
> > The best date I can find for the death of Stephen son
> > of John is *circa* 1325.
> > John son of Nicholas is usually called the 2d Lord Segrave.
> > But if Maud succeeded Stephen her father to the title, how
> > could her uncle John have ever held it?
> > (BTW, Ellen dau of Uncle John, sometimes seen as Margaret,
> > m. William de Ferrers but died 1316/17 and so is out of the
> > line.)
> > Although John m.the Duchess is usually called the 4th lord,
> > Ed Mann has him as the third.
> > Who was the second Lord Segrave? If it was John, how did
> > Nicholas, whom he survived, ever come into the title? Or
> > are the dates wrong?
> > If John m. the Duchess was 4th Lord, who was the third?
> > Maud's husband Edmund de Bohun in her right?
>
> As far as the Complete Peerage is concerned, there are two separate
peerages
> here, because both Nicholas (d.1295) and his _younger_ son Nicholas
(d.1321)
> were summoned to Parliament by writ in 1295. So in (modern) theory, two
> peerages were created.
>
> That of the father passed through 3 more generations of males (starting
with
> the younger Nicholas' elder brother John), but that of the son - which CP
> calls "Segrave of Barton Segrave and Stowe" - passed to a daughter and
> became extinct when she died without issue.
>
> > Other questions, about spouses, to which I have found no
> > answers:
> > What is the pedigree of Edmund de Bohun m Maud? How does
> > he fit into the de Bohun lines?
> > Who was Alice, mother of the heiress Maud?
> > What is the pedigree of Maud Lucy, wife of the first
> > Nicholas?
>
> Again, going by the Complete Peerage:
>
> CP doesn't identify Edmund beyond saying he was of Church Brampton,
> Northamptonshire.
>
> No identification is given for Alice beyond her given name.
>
> There is contemporary evidence for Maud's given name, but the statement
that
> she was called Maud Lucy depends on a manuscript - now lost - cited in
> Nichol's History of Leicestershire.
>
> Chris Phillips
>
>


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