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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2001-12 > 1008104289


From: (Nathaniel Taylor)
Subject: Re: Gwladus Ddu in Literature
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 15:58:09 -0500
References: <23.15ddbbe0.2947622a@aol.com>, <5cf47a19.0112110945.3b3ea30b@posting.google.com>


In article <>,
(Douglas Richardson) wrote:

> wrote in message news:<>...
>
>> In a message dated 12/10/01 11:56:44 AM, writes:
>>
>> Dr. Breeze's reply:
>>
>> "I take it you are aware of the statement in Chicago, UL, MS 224, that the
>> mother of Gwladus was 'Joan, natural daughter of King John'? Mary Giffin
>> had a paper on this, I believe, in _Speculum_, xx. My source for the
>> statement that Joan was the mother of Gwladus is the book I mentioned
>> by Mary Giffin, p. 94.
>>
>I have not heard of Mary Giffin's article in Speculum regarding Gladys
>Dhu's mother being Joan, daughter of King John. Perhaps someone can
>post the relevant passages.

Mary E. Giffin, "Cadwalader, Arthur, and Brutus in the Wigmore
Manuscript," Speculum 16 (1941), 109-120.

The 'Wigmore MS' appears to include a text of the Mortimer genealogy that
Doug has already cited as one of the evidences for Gwladys' parentage--so
this is not another independent datum.

There's a lengthy discussion of the use to which the Mortimers' connection
to the rulers of Wales through Gladys is put, but I don't see specific
statement that Joan was her mother. I'll read through it more closely
later.

The paper is based on her Ph. D. dissertation at Chicago, _The Wigmore
manuscript and the Mortimer family_ (Chicago, 1939). Her other book is
_Studies on Chaucer and his audience_ (Hull, Quebec, 1956).

Nat Taylor

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