GEN-MEDIEVAL-L ArchivesArchiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2002-01 > 1010792506
From: (Douglas Richardson)
Subject: Margery de Bohun, wife of Theobald de Verdun (Was: A New Bohun Daughter Discovered)
Date: 11 Jan 2002 15:41:46 -0800
Dear Newsgroup ~
Today I had the opportunity to further research the matter of Theobald
de Verdun's wife, Margery.
VCH Gloucester 11 (1976): 12 indicates about 1170, Hugh, Earl of
Chester, granted the fee of Bisley, co. Gloucester to Humphrey de
Bohun, son-in-law of Miles of Hereford. Humphrey was to hold the
property for the service of 3 knights fees out of the 5 owed for the
VCH Gloucester 11 (1976): 1 further shows that in 1274, the Hundred
Rolls show that the hundred of Bisley was held by Peter Corbet (in
right of his wife, Joan), Tibbald le Botiler (in right of his wife,
Margery), and Richard le Eyer. Half of the profits belonged to Peter,
the other half was shared equally by Tibbald and Richard.
In 1303, a total of 2 3/4 fees in Bisley and Stroud were held from the
earl of Hereford. including parts of Bisley manor, which fees were in
the possession respectively of Joan Corbet, Tibbald de Verdun, and
Richard of Bisley [Reference: Feudal Aids, 2 (1900): 251].
In 1309, at Theobald de Verdun's death, it was recorded that he owned
a capital messuage and lands at Bisley, co. Gloucester "in free
marriage of the earl of Hereford by service of rendering 1 lb. cummin
yearly." [Reference: Cal. IPM, vol. 5 (1908): 96].
The above information, taken together with the abstract of the legal
case I posted earlier today, make it clear that Theobald de Verdun's
wife, Margery, was the daughter of Humphrey de Bohun, and that she had
a 1/4 share of the manor and hundred of Bisley, co. Gloucester in free
marriage. Also, it appears that Margery was married previously to a
certain Robert de W., who evidently died prior to 1274, without male
issue. For an abstract of the legal case, see my earlier post which
is shown below.
As to which Humphrey de Bohun was Margery's father, it appears that
the correct Humphrey is the Humphrey de Bohun, born say 1230, died
1265, who married before 1249 Eleanor, daughter of William de Breuse,
lord of Abergavenny, by Eve, daughter of William le Marshal, Earl of
Pembroke. This Humphrey was never Earl of Hereford, he having died in
his father's lifetime. This would explain why Theobald de Verdun's
statements refer to him only as "one Humphrey" and not as "Humphrey,
Earl of Hereford."
It is unusual that a high born marriage for a Bohun woman should have
escaped the attention of so many people prior to this time. This
situation appears to have been caused by the tangled history of the
hundred and manor of Bisley, co. Gloucester, which properties had
multiple owners. It is fortunate indeed that a record of Theobald de
Verdun's statements regarding his wife's parentage were preserved in
the Yearbooks of Edward I and that his inquisition clearly show that
he acquired the property at Bisley in free marriage, held under the
Earls of Hereford.
Given that some 40 odd immigrants descend from Theobald de Verdun and
his wife, Margery de Bohun, this new discovery doubtless affects the
ancestry of a good many people here in the newsgroup.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
(Douglas Richardson) wrote in message news:<>...
> Dear Newsgroup ~
> Searching through obscure medieval lawsuits, I recently encountered an
> abstract of a legal case dated 1306 which is recorded in the Year Book
> for the Eastern term of 35 Edward I. The abstract reveals that
> Humphrey de Bohun, Earl of Hereford, had a hitherto unknown daughter,
> Margery, who is stated to have married to a certain "Robert de W."
> The testimony indicates that Earl Humphrey gave property to Margery
> his daughter in free marriage and that at some unspecified date the
> said Margery and Theobald de Verdun were seised with the said
> property. Reference is made to a charter and a deed to the property
> in question. It is unclear if the two documents are the same, or if
> they are two different conveyances.
> The Theobald de Verdun in this case was Theobald de Verdun (born ca.
> 1248, died 1309) whose wife interestingly was named Margery. Research
> indicates that Margery de Verdun held a one quarter interest in the
> hundred of Bisley, co. Gloucester. It is not known how Margery de
> Verdun possessed her share of Bisley hundred, as she doesn't appear to
> have been an heiress. Quite possibly this property represented her
> Reading the abstract of the case below, one is tempted to think that
> Theobald de Verdun's wife, Margery, is identical with Margery de Bohun
> and that Theobald de Verdun was her second husband. Theobald de
> Verdun appears to refer to Humphrey de Bohun as "our father," which is
> customary terminology in this period when a man is referring to his
> wife's father. If so, this would give the descendants of Theobald and
> Margery de Verdun some interesting new connections. Further research
> needs to be done, though, to prove or disprove this possibility.
> Theobald de Verdun mentioned here was a grandson of Rohese de Verdun,
> wife of Theobald le Boteler, the subject of many posts in recent time.
> For interest sake, the names of the various colonial immigrants who
> descend from Theobald and Margery de Verdun are listed below.
> Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> Reference: Alfred J. Horwood, ed., Year Books of the Reign of King
> Edward the First, Michaelmas Term, Year XXXIII and years XXXIV and
> XXXV, published London, 1879, pp. 170-171:
> "Theobald de Verdun vouched the Earl of Hereford, and said that one
> Humphrey his father gave the tenements to Robert de W. in
> frank-marriage with Margery his daughter, and bound himself; and by
> this deed. -- King. For fifteen years before this charter was made
> Humphrey our father had nothing in the tenements, so that by the gift
> which that charter witnesses they never had anything; judgement if by
> a charter where the "dedi" is void etc. -- Friskeney. We do not think
> to bind you to the warranty by the "dedi," but by the clause of
> warranty which is simple; and the deed is admitted, judgement. --
> King. I make void the "dedi" on which the warranty depends; for at
> the making of this deed Margery was seised and Humphrey had nothing,
> so that into the person of Theobald bnothing could pass by that
> charter; judgement etc. -- Malore. Is not Theobald tenant, and the
> charter containing the warranty in his hands? -- King. The charter
> is void; nothing passed by the gift. -- Malore. See if that follows;
> therefore take care. -- Friskeney. Since the deed is admitted, and
> Theobald and Margery were seised on the day of the making thereof, and
> Robert was never seised, and it states a simple warranty etc.
> judgement etc."
> Note: King, Friskeney and Mallore mentioned above appear to have been
> the judges in this case.
> - - - - - - - - -
> Names of colonial immigrants who descend from Theobald de Verdun (ca.
> 1248-1309), of Alton, co. Stafford, and his wife, Margery:
> l. Robert Abell.
> 2. William Asfordby.
> 3. Anne Baynton.
> 4. William Bladen.
> 5. George & Nehemiah Blakiston.
> 6. Thomas Booth.
> 7. Elizabeth Bosvile.
> 8. George, Giles & Robert Brent.
> 9. Stephen Bull.
> 10. Charles Calvert.
> 11. Edward Carleton.
> 12. Kenelm Cheseldine.
> 13. Grace Chetwode.
> 14. James Clarke.
> 15. Mary Clarke.
> 16. St.Leger Codd.
> 17. Frances, Jane & Katherine Deighton.
> 18. Edward Digges.
> 19. Thomas Dudley.
> 20. William Farrar.
> 21. John Fisher.
> 22. Edward Foliot.
> 23. Warham Horsmanden.
> 24. Anne Humphrey.
> 25. Thomas Ligon.
> 26. Anne & Katherine Marbury.
> 27. Anne Mauleverer.
> 28. John Nelson.
> 29. Philip & Thomas Nelson.
> 30. Thomas Owsley.
> 31. John Oxenbridge.
> 32.Richard Palgrave.
> 33. Herbert Pelham.
> 34. Katherine Saint Leger.
> 35. Anthony Savage.
> 36. William Skepper.
> 37. Diana & Grey Skipwith.
> 38. Maria Johanna Somerset.
> 39. John Stockman.
> 40. John West.
> 41. Thomas Wingfield.
|Margery de Bohun, wife of Theobald de Verdun (Was: A New Bohun Daughter Discovered) by (Douglas Richardson)|