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Subject: Re: Judith (of Flanders?) m. (1) Tostig (2) Welf (part 2 of 2)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 23:05:10 EST


The pope held the marriage was invalid through 'consanguinity'. This is part
of the historical record. Either the pope with his cloak of infallibility
applied this blood relationship through step relationships, or there was such
a relationship. The only possible close relationship of whole blood would be
if Mathilda was actually a daughter of Richard III. If she were, then she
would lose the relationship to Alfred the Great that caused William to chose
her in the first place. We know literally nothing of Mathilda's early years
and her birth date is estimated c1031 in order to make room for the birth of
her two older brothers.

We do know that William was a political threat, so the reason for the pope's
actions might have been political and the grounds were unimportant. Mathilda
and Pope Alexander corresponded frequently and some of the letters still
survive. Alexander held her in high regard and counseled her to keep her
husband under control.

In a message dated 3/3/02 11:55:50 AM, writes:

<< While the marriage (or engagement) of the bride herself made her
representative of the family into which she married, I know of no
example where this translated to the children or descendants of a
multiply married person. In fact, there are plenty of examples of
stepchildren marrying, who would have been related in the closest
degree were this the case.

> The marriage was not sanctioned. KHF

That we know, but the reason this was the case does not survive, and you
have already presented two different guesses, neither of which seems to
match the practices of the time. >>

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