GEN-MEDIEVAL-L ArchivesArchiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2002-03 > 1015332644
From: "Annie Natalelli-Waloszek" <>
Subject: 1st baron of Dudley Painel or Picquegney (Picqvini)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 13:50:44 +0100
IN RE : William FitzAnsculf. 1st baron > of Dudley died about 1107.
While awaiting response about Picquigney [Pinkeny] lines from Amiens, this is what the current story is according to Burke's Peerage, on the 1st lord Dudley...PAGANELL, Lords of Dudley soon after the Conquest...
Paganel, Paynel, Painel, are on most accepted lists of Wm's Companions, & also in theDomesday Book, tho this is the first I've heard of your Picquigney [Pinkeny] fellows, who also are on the Dives list, as "Anscoul de Picqvini" but not at all identifiable with the Raoul de Painel also present there, & alleged primogeniteur of the Dudley line, so I'd like like to know who told you the Picquigneys were the first of that line? As DB seems to be saying the first lords of Dudley were Painels...
The Dives list, which I travelled there to get from the source, is long by nearly 471 names, but much contested... see previous discussion of the sources for it, as per de Magny et al.
1. Dudley of Clapton, (Extinct 15 June 1764) Claim descent from PAGANELL, Lords of Dudley soon after the Conquest...
2. HAWISE PAGANELL married John de SOMERIE, conveying Castle Dudley, then back into the family when co-heir
3. MARGARET DE SOMERIE married JOHN DE SUTTON. His son & heir was summoned to parliament as.
4. Baron Sutton of Dudley in 1342, (line 1) & a descendant of his,
May I assume you have access to Burke's Peerage?
PAGANELL, PAGNELL PAYNEL, aka de POWNALL
Notes from Domesday Book, new edition:
"Ralph Paynel: his surname in the form of Paganel, latin Paganus, of Pagen "pagan" it's modern forms are Paynel, Pagnel, Pennel, Pannel, and Painel (Tengrick 223) He's generally Kern in Modern Historical Writings as Paynel; on his Christian name see note 9W4. The family was Norman from the Dept of La Manche, it held lands from the Abbey of Mont St Michel & was possibly also connected w/the Belleme family (Annie's note: Bellem being a form signifying Bethleham, used eg for the 3 master ship, Bellem, in Marseille) He was granted almost the whole of Merlesveinnesland, etc
In Burke's "Commonersof Gr Britain & Ireland" vol IV:
"In the writings of ORDERICUS VITALIS, compiled by du Chesne, we find enumerated in the train of William the Conqueror, who came into England from Normandy, Radulphus Fulco, Johannes and Hugone PAGANEL & those persons appear subsequetnly by other evidence, to have seated themselves at newport Pagnel, in the county of Buckingham, at Dudley Castle, in Worcestershire at Drax in the county of York, and at Bampton in Oxfordshire.
Vitalis too in alluding to the names of those men styled "illustrious"who had died, to the great grief of their Norman countrymen, in the same year with their victorious chief, mentions Guillelmus Paganellus. Dugdale also refers frequently to those gallant soldiers and their descendants...
According to a more modern authority, Brook, Somerset Herald, (says) the family of POWNALL is of great antiquity in the county of Chester, the mention of the name connecting them with that Shire, occurring so early as the time of King Stephen, when Avicia de Romelli, dau and coheir of Wm de Meshines, Lord of Copeland and cousin of Ranulph de Meshines, 3rd earl of Chester, m as 2nd husband **Wm PAGANEL, Lord of Were** (see below)
*The only dau of this marriage, Alice PAGANEL, wedded Rbt de GANT, uncle & heir of Wm de Gant, Earl of Lincoln; see Burke's Extinct & Dormant Peerage: Gant, Earls of Lincoln... also check for relation to Gaunt...) leading back to GILBERT DE GANT son of Baldwin, Earl of Flanders, by Maud, sister of Wm the Conqueror,
& also:THIS ROBERT m 1ST ALICIE DAU & coheir of WILLIAM PAGANEL & OF AVICE DE ROMELLI (dau & coheir of william Meshchines, Lord of Copeland) by whom he had an only dau... ALICE m to Robert FITZHARDING, of the family FITZHARDING, from which the Earls of BERKELEY derive... & on the line of the Barons BERKELEY, of Stratton, Viscountes & Earls FITZHARDING, one finds the line of the Lords BYRON.
Peter de Bermingham, steward to Gervase Paganell, Baron of Dudley, held of that nobleman in the 12th of Henry II (1165-6) with no less than nine knight's fees, de veteri feoffamento, of which William, his father, had been enfeoffed in the reign of Henry I.
Their heir female, HAWISE PAGANELL married John de SOMERIE, conveying to her husband the castle of Dudley, which passed back into the family when co-heir MARGARET DE SOMERIE married JOHN DE SUTTON. His son & heir was summoned to parliament as. Baron Sutton of Dudley in 1342, (line 1) & a descendant of his, John SUTTON, assumed the name of DUDLEY, & later, Duke of NORTHUMBERLAND.
From this 1st Baron Sutton, is derived another line (line 4), THE DUDLEYS OF CLAPTON, (see below) that of Thomas de Dudley, who settled at Clapton in Northumberland Co., a lord of Clapton Manor.
Thomas' grandson, "Unknown" de Dudley, The 1st LORD DUDLEY of Clapton, married 1395 Agnes Hotot, (interesting person described below) with Issue: William created Baronet 1650. This would be the line of which is derived the Edward Dudley of Clapton, Northhampton, who married Margery, dau of Kenelm Digby.
(Line 5 is THE DUDLEY & WARD LINE which merges by marraige with Baronesse Frances Dudley; see below)
**This William LORD OF WERE, with his kinsmen Rafe and Gervase de PAGANELL,were described amongst th most active of the adherents of Earl Randle and his barons in sustaining the interests of the Empress Maude and her son Henry, against King Stephen, which services were rewarded by the Earl with grants of lands in fee out of his demesnes in Cheshire and elsewhere... and although the origin of the grant under which the FEE OF POWNALL, COMPRISING AN ENTIRE TOWNSHIP passed, has not been specifically recorded, yet the presumption is strongly supported that, like the other grants in the same locality, it was the recompense of military services...
"Although (says Brooke) from the seat of their property in Cheshire, the Pownalls were denominated according to the true British orthography of the name, & were styled after the Norman custom: "de Pownall" ... yet they were at the same time styled in the records, written in Norman: Paiinel, Payanell, & Paynel... & in those written in latin, Paganell...
...Peter de Bermingham, steward to Gervase Paganell, Baron of Dudley, held of that nobleman in the 12th of Henry II (1165-6) with no less than nine knight's fees, de veteri feoffamento, of which William, his father, had been enfeoffed in the reign of Henry I.
(Interesting notes :Robert de Bruce, lord of Skelton, founder of the priory of Gisburne, in the county of York, wedded Agnes, dau of Fulke Pagnell, baron of Dudley, and dying in 1141, left 2 sons, 1. ADAM de BRUCE, baron of Skelton, gr grandfather of Peter de Brus, mentioned in the text, & 2. ROBERT de BRUCE, Lord of Annandale, in Scotland, Ancestor of the Kings of Scotland...)
Alice PAGANEL, m. Rbt de GANT (Burke's Dormant, Abeyant, Forfeited & Extinct Peerages)
NOTES FOR AGNES HOTOT, wife of first Lord DUDLEY of Clapton
On the occasion of obtaining the crest (arms : Azn a chevron or between 3 lions' heads erased arg; crest: on a ducal crown or, a woman's head with a helmet thereon, hair dishevelled, throat latch loose, ppr) is mentioned in a 1390 manuscript by a monk, parson of Clapton: "The father of AGNES HOTOT , the great heiress who married Dudley, having a dispute with one Ringesdale about the title to a piece of land, they agreed to meet on the disputed ground & decide the affair by combat. Hotot on the day appointed was laid up with the gout, but his daughter Agnes, rather than the land should be lost, armed herself cap-& epee, and mounting her father's steed, went and encountered Ringsdale, whom, after a stubborn contest, she unhorsed; and when he was on the ground, she loosened her throat latch, lifted up her helmet, and let down her hair about her shoulders, thus discovering her sex." In commemoration of this exploit, the crest was adopted and ever afterwards used.
|1st baron of Dudley Painel or Picquegney (Picqvini) by "Annie Natalelli-Waloszek" <>|