GEN-MEDIEVAL-L Archives

Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2002-03 > 1016110146


From: (Bryant Smith)
Subject: Re: Nepociano of asturias
Date: 14 Mar 2002 04:49:06 -0800
References: <20020313093033.95977.qmail@web13907.mail.yahoo.com>


A few questions of detail inserted
at appropriate points below:

(=?iso-8859-1?q?maria=20emma=20escobar?=) wrote in message news:<>...
> In reference to Nepociano, the first point
> is to know what say the chronicles about him. The
> "Crónica de Albelda" said only that Napociano was
> defeated "ad pontem Narciae" probably near Cangas de
> Tineo or Cornellana. After that, Napociano was blinded
> and shut up in a monastery.
How very Byzantine! The blinding of rivals has several
examples in the dynasties of Byzantium, but this is the
only one I've seen in medieval Spain. Are there others?

> The two versions of the "Crónica de Alfonso
> III" give us more details:

Two versions? Do they differ in significant detail?
Is there any clue to which is more faithful to the
original? I've ordered and eagerly await Kenneth
Baxter Wolf's (revised edition) translations but
don't know yet whether he compares two versions of
Alfonso III's cronica.

> When king Alfonso died,
> Ramiro was elected as the king, but the "comes
> palatti"

How would we render this title/office today?

> Nepociano didn't respect the eleccion and
> occupied the throne as a tyrant. Ramiro, Bermudo I´son
> was in Bardulia ( Castilla and Alava)

I need a geography lesson here. Did "Bardulia" comprise
those two regions? Others as well? Where is/was Alava?
> and came to
> Galicia, to the city of Lugo, where he organized an
> army and entry in Asturias, where he defeated
> Nepociano, who had an army with "astures and
> Vascones".

Does "Vascones" equate with "Basques?" "Biscay?"
Are they different? Mentions of pre-Visigoth
indigenes in northern Iberia are rare
(to me). Are their any good discussions of how they
figured in the stabilizaton of the Visigothic occupation?

> But other documents give another version
> about Nepociano, and don't take Ramiro I as the
> immediate successor of Alfonso. The "Nomina regum
> catholicorum legionensium" del "Codice de Albelda"
> places Napociano after Alfonso II: "Deinde Nepotianus
> cognatus regis Adefonsi. Post Nepotianum Ranimirus."
> and the same say the "Nomina?" of the Roda Codice.

What are the (approximate) dates of these two codices?
are they published anywhere?

> Furthermore, there is a document from the
> year 863 where a man named Rebelio went to Oviedo and
> obtained a document: "tessera", from Nepociano in
> order to recover a property: "Sic fui ego Rebelio ad
> Obeto et pro tessera domni Nepotiani misi ipsos
> fraters?."

What was the nature of a "tessera," in general, then?
Does the document tell us anything about "ipsos
fraters?" (Is "fraters" the exact orthography? Not
"fratres?")

> Obviusly, this document is talking about old
> facts, because in 863 the king is Ordoño I, Ramiro
> I´son.
> The "Crónica de Albelda

Is the "Cronica" different from the "Codice" mentioned
above?

> says Nepociano was a
> tyrant and when Ramiro defeated him, Ramiro obtained
> the throne: "et sic regnum accepit".
> The "Nominas" say Nepociano was "cognatus" of Alfonso
> II.

In using the plural here, do you mean that the Nominas
of both codices agree on this point?

> Today, cognatus is a brother- in -law, but Alfonso
> II´father: Fruela I, died in 768. When Alfonso II died
> in 842 her supposed sister was at least 74 years old
> and probably the same age could be her husband, if
> this husband is Nepociano (cognatus) ¿ Is logic that a
> 70 years old man (in this times) organize an army,
> fight in a battle, run away riding a horse, was
> blinded and then lives some years as a prisoner in a
> monastery? He must be Superman!
> Probably, this word cognatus had the old sense of
> "blood relation": "cognatae urbes" was named the
> cities of the same lineage. Probably Nepociano was
> from the same family the Munia (?), Alfonso II´s
> mother, who probably was a "vascona": from the old
> Castilla or Alava country.

TAF's AT of Teresa Queen of Portugal gives Alfonso II's
mother as "Munnia Froilaz of Cantabria" and, once his
numbers are adjusted, appears to make her a daughter
of Froila Perez, duke, son of our very important Pedro.
Is this the family to which you refer? How does this
mesh with "'vascona:' from the old Castilla or Alava
country?"

Saludos
Bryant Smith
Playa Palo Seco
Costa Rica
> Mee.
>
> =====
>
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Messenger
> Comunicación instantánea gratis con tu gente.
> http://messenger.yahoo.es


This thread: