Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2002-03 > 1017161202

From: "Todd A. Farmerie" <>
Subject: Re: Plantagenet Descents from Ancient Judea
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:46:42 -0700
References: <>, <>, <>

Chris and Tom Tinney, Sr. wrote:

> There is a very strong prejudice
> on this list about only using
> primary evidence, without properly
> considering the surviving data
> sources. Medieval record sources concerning childhood are rare,
> in so much that many are hard pressed
> to answer the simple question of
> what childhood was like in the
> Middle Ages. This does not mean
> that there were no children, or
> that childhood did not exist.

Quite right. From now on, I will argue that all medievals sprung
fully-formed from the head of Zeus, for which we have direct
documentation of that seems to meet approval on some fronts -
from a vastly different time period, refering to a yet earlier
period about which the source could not possibly know such
detail, and regarding an entirely different context - perfect.

> I refer you to The Germanic Realms in
> Pre-Carolingian Central Europe, 400-
> 750; by Herbert Schutz, Professor of
> German. He notes that the origins of
> Queens did not deter their rise to
> power. DSH delights in telling all
> on this list about the many bastards,
> coming from many women, of which the
> Jews, as slave dealers, would have been
> in the position to provide to Kings.
> Jewish girl slaves, that is; for Jewish
> merchants to retain their precarious position in the Courts of Europe and
> later in the British Isles. See also:
> Dark Age Economics, The origins of towns
> and trade A.D. 600 - 1000, by
> Richard Hodges.

So a source about queens in Germanic realms before 750 is used to
make a specific claims about mistresses in Norman England after
(by definition) 1066. Maybe, just maybe, the cultural context
had altered somewhat, what? Not just that, though - the presence
of jewish slavers (implied from sources relating to other periods
as well) presents a context in your fantasy for them being forced
to provide jewish mistresses to the king, the implication being
that the children born to these mistresses would enter the
nobility (there being evidence for none of this, but why let lack
of evidence interfere with the story one is trying to invent).
You might want to check the historical record - Henry I, Henry
II, or John, the prime producers of bastards who entered the
nobility, found their mistresses among the highest levels of
nobility, including at least one king's daughter. Ask yourself
this - would a child born to a romp with a slave-prostitute be
recognized as royal-born at all? Not bloody likely (not that
some of us let that stand in the way of a good tale).


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