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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2002-03 > 1017162240


From: Francisco Antonio Doria <>
Subject: Re: Vajay's chart (was: Nepociano of Asturias)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:04:03 -0300 (ART)
In-Reply-To: <3CA09F2A.7080503@interfold.com>


Just a point - again: as far as I can go, *in
Portuguese*, tio - thius - is a vague word. It
strictly translates as uncle, but quite frequently
means older relative, and even old family friend (this
is a more recent meaning).

chico

--- "Todd A. Farmerie" <>
escreveu: > Bryant Smith wrote:
>
> > "Todd A. Farmerie" <> wrote
> in message news:<>...
> >
> >>All of these alternative interpretations (or
> refutations),
> >>including the one shown by Vajay, are thus based
> on the weighing
> >>of two primary sources - one stating that Fruela
> took to wife a
> >>vascon named Munia, the other that Alfonso II was
> maternal nephew
> >>of Vermudo.
> >>
> >
> > Where, then does the previous discussion of
> Alfonso III referring
> > to Alfonso as his "thius" fit into this analysis
> of the documentary
> > foundation(s) of the Vajay reconstruction?
>
>
> Two separate issues - this "thius" addresses the
> connection
> between Ramiro I Vermudez and Alfonso II, while the
> above is
> addessing the connection between Alfonso II and
> Vermudo the
> deacon. Both play a role in the reconstruction, but
> they dare
> independent, in that each of which contributes to a
> different
> part of the reconstruction and does not depend on
> the accuracy of
> the other - in other words, the "thius" argument
> could be right
> even if ibn Hayyan was mistaken, or "thius" could be
> misused even
> is Munia was sister of Vermudo the deacon.
>
> > Todd, you have mentioned that Alfonso III enjoyed
> a reputation as
> > a scholar, comparing well with Alfred the Great.
> How was the
> > reputation acquired? If the earlier version of
> his cronicle is
> > in "horrible latin" as Maria Emma has said, and
> the later one is
> > propaganda (as she has implied), whence the
> reputation?
>
>
> That is two more chronicles than are attributed to
> any other king
> prior to Alfonso X. Although I have not gotten hold
> of the
> originals, I wonder if the chronicle was not
> "horrible latin"
> because it was drifting toward vernacular. At any
> rate, he also
> brought the sources together from which the
> chronicle was compiled.
>
> He really occupies a similar role in the mindset -
> living at the
> same period, he combatted an invader people and
> engaged in
> political policy that encompassed much of the
> christian portion
> of what would later be Spain. He took an interest
> in the history
> of his family and kingdom, and the earliest native
> chronicle
> source owes its existance to his efforts. He became
> known in the
> history of his nation as Alfonso 'el Mayor'. See
> the similarities?
>
> taf
>

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