Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2002-04 > 1018832839

From: (Stewart Baldwin)
Subject: Heribert of Kinziggau, part 2a
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 01:07:19 GMT

Part 2:
Heribert's parentage.

[Because of the length, this part is posted in three subparts, 2a, 2b,
and 2c.]

Part 2a:

Unfortunately, the primary sources do not state Heribert's parentage,
but other information about his family has been used to try to deduce
his parentage. The basic starting point is the chronicle of Theitmar
of Merseberg (d. 1018), a relative of Heribert. Both of Heribert's
sons are referred to by Theitmar as his "nepos", although it is clear
from chronology that the word does not mean either "grandson" or
"nephew" here, but is used in the looser sense of "relative". A
translation of Thietmar's chronicle into English, by David A. Warner,
has recently been published. Unfortunately, the chapter numbers in
Warner's translation are different from the chapter numbers in the
Latin version that is available to me in Monumenta Germaniae Historica
[MGH], and this makes comparison of the two tedious (and Warner's
incomplete index doesn't help). In the excerpts from Thietmar below,
Chapter x/y means Chapter x in the MGH version and Chapter y in
Warner's translation. Thietmar gives the following direct statements
tying Heribert to his sons and to one of his brothers:

Book 4, Chapter 38/60: "... Conradus, Suevorum ductor egreius, ac
eiusdem frater Heribertus comes ..." [MGH SS 3, 785; Warner 194]

Book 5, Chapter 16: "... cum Heriberti comitis filio Ottone ..." [MGH
SS 3, 797]

Book 7, Chapter 34: "... Gevehardus, Heriberti comitis filius, nepos
meus, ..." [MGH SS 3, 852]

Book 8, Chapter 5: "... nepos meus Oddo et uxor eius Irmingerd,
consanguinitate proxima iniuste deo coniuncti, ..." [MGH SS 3, 863]

Much of the same information appears in Annalista Saxo [MGH SS 6],
which used Thietmar as a source.

Put together, the above statements give the following table:

| |
Konrad Heribert
duke of count
Swabia ____________|__________
| |
Otto (Oddo) Gebhard
m. Irmingard d. 1016

In addition, Thietmar gives the following information on some of his
relatives that can be tied to the first table using other sources:

Book 2, Chapter 18: "... avum meimet Heinricum ..." [MGH SS 3, 752]

Book 2, Chapter 26: "... avia meimet, Iuthitta nomine ..." [MGH SS 3,

Book 3, Chapter 12: "... Udonem ducem, matris meae avunculum, ..."
[MGH SS 3, 765, listed among several killed in 982]

Book 5, Chapter 14: "... Herimannus dux, matris meae avunculi filius,
... [MGH SS 3, 797]

The above four pieces of data give the following table:
| | |
NN <-same?-> Udo, duke Judith-m-Heinrich
| d. 982 |
Hermann Kunigunde-m-Siegfried
duke |
Thietmar of Merseberg

Thietmar does not make it clear whether the "avunculus" of his mother
who was father of duke Hermann was the same man as Udo (also an
"avunculus" of his mother). The parentage of duke Hermann is given
differently in two early sources:

Annales Heremi, under the year 997 [MGH SS 3, 144] state: "Chuonradus
dux obiit. Herimannus filius eius in ducatum successit."

On the other hand, Hermann appears as "Herimannus filius Udonis ducis"
in Annalista Saxo [MGH SS 6, 650].

The resolution of this conflict appears to be that Annalista Saxo is
in error. As Annalista Saxo relies heavily on Thietmar as a source,
it seems likely that the author of Annalista Saxo simply jumped to
conclusions by assuming that the "avunculus" who was the father of
Herimann was the same as the only person mentioned by Theitmar as
such, i.e. Udo. Since the account of Annalista Saxo can be so easily
explained as mistaken "conclusion jumping" by the author of that work,
I would agree with both Hlawitschka and Jackman that it is reasonable
to accept the account of Annales Heremi that Conrad was succeeded by
his son Hermann. Given this, we have the following picture of
Heribert and his family:

| | | |
Konrad Heribert Udo Judith-m-Heinrich [of Stade]
duke of count d. 982 |
Swabia | |
| ______|__________ |
| | | |
Hermann Otto Gebhard Kunigunde-m-Siegfried
duke of of Hammerstien d. 1016 |
Swabia m. Irmingard |
of Merseberg

[End part 2a, to be continued in part 2b]

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