GEN-MEDIEVAL-L ArchivesArchiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2002-04 > 1019229371
From: "Chris Phillips" <>
Subject: Re: Did Isabel le Despenser marry Richard de Arundel and Maurice de Berkeley?
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 16:16:11 +0100
Leo van de Pas wrote:
How can you possibly say that Mary Fitzalan (married to
John Le Strange) was the sister and not the daughter of Richard Earl of
Arundel, who died 24 January 1375/6?
I understand, perhaps I am wrong, that Douglas Richardson assisted David
Faris with "Plantagenet Ancestry". I do not know how many editions there
have been, I can rely only on the first edition.
On page 55 Isabel Le Despenser was born about 1312. She was married on 9
February 1320/1 about 8 years old, to Richard FitzAlan (copped Hat) Earl of
Arundel. Their marriage was annulled 4 December 1344.
Richard FitzAlan, Earl of Arundel, died 24 January 1375/6.
Children of Richard FitzAlan by Isabel Le Despencer :
2.Mary FitzAlan, died 29 August 1363, married John Le Strange, 4th Lord
Strange. Of course, she the sister of a Richard FitzAlan, Earl of Arundel,
but not the one who died in 1375/6, that one was her father according to
I'm afraid that is an error in the Complete Peerage, and also evidently
"Plantagenet Ancestry" (and probably a fair number of other secondary
Douglas Richardson pointed out a few months ago a couple of pieces of
evidence that show Mary was the sister of Richard (d.1375/6), not his
daughter. I later came across a third. A brief summary of the evidence is
Adrian Channing pointed out a possible difficulty with one of these pieces
of evidence, the statement by Margaret Aston, in her book, "Thomas Arundel",
that the will of Richard Arundel (d.1375/6) refers to Mary as his sister.
Adrian pointed out that the abstract of this will in Testamenta Vetusta does
not mention Mary Lestrange, though it does mention a sister Alaine, wife of
A few weeks ago I obtained a photocopy of the registered copy of Richard's
will. I'm sorry not to have cleared up this point sooner, but it's a very
lengthy document, and I was hoping to get together some a reasonable summary
of the whole thing, for those interested. Time hasn't permitted that yet.
However, the relevant clause is present, not in the will proper, but in an
"Ordinance and device", dated August 49 Edward III , and copied into
the register after the will. This is written in the third person, and reads
"It'm il ad ordene p' ma dame dame marie Lest'nges sa soer ij chargeo's p'
la cuisyne ij douseyne des esqueles & xij sauc's dargent" (He ordained for
my lady Lady Mary Lestrange his sister 2 chargers for the kitchen, 2 dozen
bowls and 12 silver saucers).
|Re: Did Isabel le Despenser marry Richard de Arundel and Maurice de Berkeley? by "Chris Phillips" <>|