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From: (Shawn Potter)
Subject: Re: Khazars & Malek to Vladimir (was: ... ancient Judea)
Date: 30 Apr 2002 03:25:09 -0700
References: <3CCC8777.6853@dialup.ptt.ru>, <7004aa4b.0204290247.6f06f88d@posting.google.com>, <eb613152.0204291817.679f2332@posting.google.com>


(Kevin Brook) wrote in message news:<>...
>
> There is also no convincing evidence to show that Prince Vladimir of
> Kiev had any Khazar ancestors. Nor is there any proof that Mal'k and
> Malusha were Khazar titles. Your research is going in the wrong
> direction if you think these are reputable ideas.
>

"Andrew S. Kalinkin" <> wrote in message news:<>...

>
> On the other hand sagas describe contemporary Scandinavian marriage
> customs (and Rogneda and her family were Scandinavians).
>

(Vadim Verenich) wrote in message news:<>...

>
> Your account of Barat's deliberate falsifications is
> beyond the reasonable doubt - it implies you belief in Barat's
> sincerity, intellectual honesty.
>

Kevin, Andrew, and Vadim (and other interested parties),

Thank you all for your thoughts.

Several months ago, I noticed the similarity between the name of
Vladimir's maternal grandfather and the Hebrew word for "king" or
"prince." Three days ago, I discovered that German Markovich Barats
noticed and wrote about the same similitarity 75 years ago. This is
interesting; and doesn't require me to agree with Barats in every area
to say so.

What do you think about Barats' points about the names of Vladimir's
mother and maternal grandfather? Do you have a better explanation?

In an earlier discussion about Mal'k's name, Andrew suggested that
Mal'k derived from the Slavic root "mal," meaning "small" plus the
Russian diminutive ending "ik"--producing a name with the meaning of
"Itsy-bitsy." Andrew's etymology is not very convincing to me.

Kevin, you should have quoted Wexler's full statement about Barats'
work to give a more accurate picture of Wexler's opinion. As you know
Wexler wrote:

"Barats argued here and in other works before and after World War I
published in Kiev and the West that there is a significant Jewish
(Khazar) element in early Ukrainian (Rus') culture. He was generally
attacked, and with justification, since most of his examples were more
imaginative than factual. However, now that the Soviet Union has
collapsed, the Khazar question, once a taboo topic in the Soviet
Union, has reemerged. Recent research offers support for Barats'
general thesis, though not necessarily for his details."

Then Wexler mentions the work of Irma Khainman, who now is focusing on
some of the same issues first mentioned by Barats--by the way, I
summarized one of her articles on the thread entitled "Plantagenet
Descents from Ancient Judea" at
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=7004aa4b.0203272110.7ef19064%40posting.google.com&output=gplain.
Wexler continues:

"In connection with the Judaized Khazars, I should mention that the
North Branch of the University Library has a copy of I.Khajnman,
Evrejskaja diaspora i Rus', Jerusalem 1983. The author is an Israeli
emigrant of Russian origin. I had never heard of the book until I
discovered it in Sapporo! We apparently don't have the book at
Tel-Aviv University."

Kevin Brook also wrote:

> ...
> There is also no convincing evidence to show that Prince Vladimir of
> Kiev had any Khazar ancestors. Nor is there any proof that Mal'k and
> Malusha were Khazar titles. Your research is going in the wrong
> direction if you think these are reputable ideas.
>

I'm surprised by your cavalier dismissal of Barats' suggestion that
the names of Vladimir's mother and maternal grandfather have Hebrew
origins. Can you disprove Barats' etymology or offer a better
explanation?

Merely searching for the truth--not reputation,

Shawn Potter

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