Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2002-07 > 1025744219

From: "Rosie Bevan" <>
Subject: Re: Countess Ida, Bigod, Longespee
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 12:56:59 +1200
References: <>

Dear Ray and Peter

Yes, thank you for this very significant post confirming the Bigod and
Longespee association.

F of F Suffolk 9 Oct 1199 [Barbara Dodwell, ed. 'Feet of Fines for the
County of Norfolk for the Reign of King John 1201-1215 ; for the County of
Suffolk for the Reign of King John 1199-1214 (London. Pipe Roll Society,
1958). p.143/4] has Hugh son and heir of Roger Bigod being granted the manor
of Staverton by Hubert de Monchensi (Munchensy, Monte Caniso). If he was an
adult at the time that would place his birth before 1178 - certainly within
the right time frame to be half brother of William Longspee.

If anyone wants me to post the text of the fine, I will. It is in latin.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Stewart, Peter" <>
To: <>
Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2002 12:12 PM
Subject: RE: Countess Ida, Bigod, Longespee

> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: R Phair [mailto:]
> > Sent: Thursday, 4 July 2002 3:06
> > To:
> > Subject: Countess Ida, Bigod, Longespee
> >
> <snip>
> > As it turns out there is evidence that Ida countess of Norfolk was
> > William's mother. Among the prisoners captured at the battle of
> > Bouvines, Flanders, in 1214 was Ralph Bigod, described as a brother of
> > William (Longespee) earl of Salisbury [3].
> >
> <snip>
> > It may turn out to be only coincidence, but another Bradenstoke charter
> > of earl William, dated by London as 1198x1199, was witnessed by, among
> > others, Hugh Bigod and William Bigod [1]. These happen to be the names
> > of both earl Roger Bigod's half-brothers and two of his sons. Both of
> > the half-brothers were living at this time; Hugh was the older one [8].
> > It is not clear if both sons would have been old enough to witness a
> > charter of their half-brother, nor is it certain that earl Roger's son
> > William was still alive. London did not attempt to identify the
> > witnesses.
> Congratulations, Ray, for your discoveries & the most valuable post to SGM
> for quite a while.
> By the way, there are instances of boys stated to be as young as 6 years
> witnessing charters in France in the 12th century. The normal expectation
> that they would be considerably older than that may be too rigid.
> Best wishes
> Peter Stewart

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