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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2002-07 > 1025747580


From: Roz Griston <>
Subject: RE: Countess Ida, Bigod, Longespee
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 18:53:00 -0700


i would be interested in the information rosie. i have an interest in
de Monchensi (Munchensy, Monte Caniso) in Norfolk/Suffolk circa 1272.
i'm trying to find the parent(s) of Dionisia de Montchensy referred to
by Blomefield in his history of norfolk.
roz

> Dear Ray and Peter
>
> Yes, thank you for this very significant post confirming the Bigod
> and
> Longespee association.
>
> F of F Suffolk 9 Oct 1199 [Barbara Dodwell, ed. 'Feet of Fines for
> the
> County of Norfolk for the Reign of King John 1201-1215 ; for the
> County of
> Suffolk for the Reign of King John 1199-1214 (London. Pipe Roll
> Society,
> 1958). p.143/4] has Hugh son and heir of Roger Bigod being granted
the
> manor
> of Staverton by Hubert de Monchensi (Munchensy, Monte Caniso). If he
> was an
> adult at the time that would place his birth before 1178 - certainly
> within
> the right time frame to be half brother of William Longspee.
>
> If anyone wants me to post the text of the fine, I will. It is in
> latin.
>
> Cheers
>
> Rosie
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stewart, Peter" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2002 12:12 PM
> Subject: RE: Countess Ida, Bigod, Longespee
>
>
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: R Phair [mailto:]
> > > Sent: Thursday, 4 July 2002 3:06
> > > To:
> > > Subject: Countess Ida, Bigod, Longespee
> > >
> > <snip>
> > > As it turns out there is evidence that Ida countess of Norfolk
> > > was
> > > William's mother. Among the prisoners captured at the battle of
> > > Bouvines, Flanders, in 1214 was Ralph Bigod, described as a
> > > brother of
> > > William (Longespee) earl of Salisbury [3].
> > >
> > <snip>
> > > It may turn out to be only coincidence, but another Bradenstoke
> > > charter
> > > of earl William, dated by London as 1198x1199, was witnessed by,
> > > among
> > > others, Hugh Bigod and William Bigod [1]. These happen to be the
> > > names
> > > of both earl Roger Bigod's half-brothers and two of his sons.
Both
> > > of
> > > the half-brothers were living at this time; Hugh was the older
one
> > > [8].
> > > It is not clear if both sons would have been old enough to
witness
> > > a
> > > charter of their half-brother, nor is it certain that earl
Roger's
> > > son
> > > William was still alive. London did not attempt to identify the
> > > witnesses.
> >
> > Congratulations, Ray, for your discoveries & the most valuable post
> > to SGM
> > for quite a while.
> >
> > By the way, there are instances of boys stated to be as young as 6
> > years
> old
> > witnessing charters in France in the 12th century. The normal
> > expectation
> > that they would be considerably older than that may be too rigid.
> >
> > Best wishes
> >
> > Peter Stewart
> >
> >
> >
>


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