Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2002-07 > 1025904220

From: Tim Powys-Lybbe <>
Subject: RE: Umfrevilles and Reveleys
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 22:23:40 +0100
References: <000c01c22446$2e6f9350$92dbf7a5@D9080911>
In-Reply-To: <000c01c22446$2e6f9350$92dbf7a5@D9080911>

In message <000c01c22446$2e6f9350$>
"Sutliff" <> wrote:

> More.
> _Domesday Descendants_ by Keats-Rohan.
> P. 769 Ivo de Vesci, Norman from Vassy, Calvados, arr. Vire, said to
> have acquired land at Alnick (sic Alnwick), Northumberland, by marriage
> to a daughter of William Tison. Certainly father of Beatrice, wife of
> Eustace FitzJohn (d. 1157), whose son William took his mother's name of
> de Vesci.
> P. 1126, Willelm Tison, son of Adam Tison and Emma...Succeeded father c.
> 1154, holding fifteen fees of Roger de Mowbray. He was dead by the end
> of 1180, leaving four daughter by his wife Alice, viz the wife of Robert
> I the Constable of Flamborough, Constance, wife of Ralph de Beauver,
> Matilda, wife first of Robert de Beauver and secondly of William of
> Weighton, and Agnes (d. s.p. before 1185), wife of Hugh FitzMalger of
> Streeton.
> Although Ivo de Vesci's wife is mentioned in the first instance, she is
> not listed among William's daughters in the second. William had a
> brother Malger and a sister Avice, wife of Henry II Hosatus.
> HS
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kay Allen AG [mailto:]
> Sent: Friday, July 05, 2002 5:45 AM
> To:
> Subject: Re: Umfrevilles and Reveleys
> malinda wrote:
> > >From Learned Cousin.....~m
> >
> > Ivo de Vesci, said to be a companion of William the Conqueror, is
> > supposed to have married Alda the daughter and heir of William Tyson
> > (Tesson), lord of Alnwick, Northumberland & Malton, Yorkshire.
> Citation please.

I just happen to have C T Clay's "Early Yorks Charter, Tison Fee", pub
1965, beside me and on page 1 there is this:

"GILBERT TISON ... was a tenant in chief at the Domesday survey in the
East and West Ridings of Yorkshire...

"The accounts of him and his family which have appeared in print contain
many statements which cannot be accepted and others of which there is no
corroborative proof. Dugdale in his account of the family of Vescy
stated that the Conqueror bestowed on Yvo de vesci 'the Daughter and
sole Heir to William Tyson, Lord of Alnwyke in Northumberland, and of
Malton in Yorkshire (two large baronies) both of them belonging to
Gilbert Tyson his Father, slain in Battle on the part of King Harold';
and in his chart pedigree he named the daughter of William Tyson as
Alda, the mother by Yvo de Vesci of Beatrice sole daughter and heri and
wife of Eustace FitzJohn. The only portion of this descent which is
susceptible of proof is that Eustace FitzJohn married as his first wife
Beatrice only daughter and heir of Yves de Vescy, lord of Alnwick and
Malton. The reference for Dugdale's statement is an account of the
ancestry of two daughters of the Vescy family and their descendants
which was drawn up in the reign of Edward II."

Clay goes on to discuss this in some detail the text of this reference
and the rest of the tale of the error. He concludes, p. 3:

"there is no satsifactory evidence for the tenure by Gilbert Tison and
the earliest known Norman lord of Alnwick was Yves de Vescy, and,
moreover, that the latter did not acquire it by marriage with a Tison

Tim Powys-Lybbe
For a patchwork of bygones:

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