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From: "Rosie Bevan" <>
Subject: Fw: Countess Ida, Bigod, Longespee
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 15:19:24 +1200


I've had a few requests to post the Suffolk fine mentioned which may help
establish dates for Hugh Bigod. He would probably have been of age or almost
of age at the time of receiving the manor of Staverton as the gift was for
homage and service.

[Case 212. File 2 No. 6]
Suff'. Hec est finalis concordia.facta in curia domini regis apud Westm' .
die sabbati proxima post festum sancte Fidis anno regni regis Johannis primo
[9 Oct 1199]. coram G. filio Petri. magistro Thoma de Husseburn' . Willelmo
de Warenn' . Ricardo de Herierd. justic' et aliis fidelibus domini regis
ibidem tunc presentibus inter . Hubertum de Munkanesi petentem et comitem
Rogerum Bigot tenentem de manerio de Staverton' cum pertinentiis . unde
placitum fuit inter eos in prefata curia . scilicet quod predictus comes
Rogerus recognouit totum predictum manerium cum pertinentiis . esse jus . et
hereditatem predicti Huberti. Et pro hac recognitione predictus Hubertus
dedit et concessit Hugoni Bigot . filio et heredi ipsius Rogeri . pro
homagio et servitio suo . totum predictum manerium cum pertinentiis.
Tenendum de ipso Huberto et heredibus suis . sibi et heredibus suis in
perpetuum . per seruitium feodi unius militis et dimidii pro omni seruito .
preter octo libratas terre quas idem Hubertus retinuit ad opus suum . in
villa de Stauerton' . scilicet sexcies viginti acras in dominico . unde
quinque acre jacent in cultura de Tie . et quadraginta due acre et una roda
apud Eicgat' et Haselun . et xiij acre et j roda in Thurstanecroft . et xiij
acre in Munpelescroft . et v acre et tres rode apud Howes . et xv acre in
Alstanecroft . et xxv acre et iij rode in Kattele . et triginta acras de
pastura apud Dunescroft . et pasturam de Hakewade. Et preterea seruitium
Rogeri de Willeford cum tenemento suo eiusdem uille. Et subscriptos natiuos
. Alexandrum filium Wlwric' . et Rogerum filium Sirich' . et Osbertum
Neweman . et Swarting . et Edulf Pitekin . et Sweinum filium Godwini . et
Willelmum Porite . et Oslac Flobi . et Godwinum de Bromeswell' . et Heinfred
et Johannem le Macun . et Wluric' pincun . et Levricum le Pottere et
Willelmum de Ham . et Willelmum le Richeman . Osbertum Ruffum . Rogerum
filium Hakun . et Matillidem filiam Baldwini . et Edricum Pinel . et Albram
. et Semann' filium Godwini . Gillebertum Singwine . et Joie del Heth . et
Walterum filium Beatricie . et Osbertum Smolt . cum tenementis et seruitiis
suis . et consuetudinibus quas facere solebant comiti Rogero . et cum
communi pastura . excepto dominico predicti Hugonis et terris quas arabit de
carucis eius in eadem uilla. et preter hoc retinuit viginti v solidos in
molendino de Staverton' . et iiijor denarios per annum . ita quod ...inde
firmarius illius molendini . affidatus erit predicti Huberti . de predictis
denariis soluendis. et sciendum est quod predictus comes Rogerus tenebit
totum predictum manerium . preter predictas viijto libratas terre exceptas .
tota vita sua faciendo inde seruitium prenominatum predicto Huberto . et
heredibus suis. et pro hoc fine . et concordia . et donatione . et
concessione ; predictus Rogerus dedit predicto Huberto centum marcas
argenti.

Barbara Dodwell, ed. 'Feet of Fines for the County of Norfolk for the Reign
of King John 1201-1215 ; for the County of Suffolk for the Reign of King
John 1199-1214 (London. Pipe Roll Society ; no., 1958). p.143/4

Rosie

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rosie Bevan" <>
To: <>
Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2002 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: Countess Ida, Bigod, Longespee


> Dear Ray and Peter
>
> Yes, thank you for this very significant post confirming the Bigod and
> Longespee association.
>
> F of F Suffolk 9 Oct 1199 [Barbara Dodwell, ed. 'Feet of Fines for the
> County of Norfolk for the Reign of King John 1201-1215 ; for the County of
> Suffolk for the Reign of King John 1199-1214 (London. Pipe Roll Society,
> 1958). p.143/4] has Hugh son and heir of Roger Bigod being granted the
manor
> of Staverton by Hubert de Monchensi (Munchensy, Monte Caniso). If he was
an
> adult at the time that would place his birth before 1178 - certainly
within
> the right time frame to be half brother of William Longspee.
>
> If anyone wants me to post the text of the fine, I will. It is in latin.
>
> Cheers
>
> Rosie
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stewart, Peter" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2002 12:12 PM
> Subject: RE: Countess Ida, Bigod, Longespee
>
>
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: R Phair [mailto:]
> > > Sent: Thursday, 4 July 2002 3:06
> > > To:
> > > Subject: Countess Ida, Bigod, Longespee
> > >
> > <snip>
> > > As it turns out there is evidence that Ida countess of Norfolk was
> > > William's mother. Among the prisoners captured at the battle of
> > > Bouvines, Flanders, in 1214 was Ralph Bigod, described as a brother of
> > > William (Longespee) earl of Salisbury [3].
> > >
> > <snip>
> > > It may turn out to be only coincidence, but another Bradenstoke
charter
> > > of earl William, dated by London as 1198x1199, was witnessed by, among
> > > others, Hugh Bigod and William Bigod [1]. These happen to be the names
> > > of both earl Roger Bigod's half-brothers and two of his sons. Both of
> > > the half-brothers were living at this time; Hugh was the older one
[8].
> > > It is not clear if both sons would have been old enough to witness a
> > > charter of their half-brother, nor is it certain that earl Roger's son
> > > William was still alive. London did not attempt to identify the
> > > witnesses.
> >
> > Congratulations, Ray, for your discoveries & the most valuable post to
SGM
> > for quite a while.
> >
> > By the way, there are instances of boys stated to be as young as 6 years
> old
> > witnessing charters in France in the 12th century. The normal
expectation
> > that they would be considerably older than that may be too rigid.
> >
> > Best wishes
> >
> > Peter Stewart
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>




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