Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2002-07 > 1026040624

From: "Chris Phillips" <>
Subject: Re: Isabel, wife/wives of William de Felton (d.1358)
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 12:17:04 +0100
References: <003701c22535$40bb3420$6b4986d9@oemcomputer> <007901c22547$8413efc0$>

Rosie Bevan wrote:
> You seem very adept in finding more questions than answers with this

I think the Feltons certainly qualify as "one of those families"!

> The papal reservation confirming the marriage of Isabella of Fife and
> William de Felton is an excellent find and shows that they did indeed have
> issue as Duncan is undoubtedly named for her father, and is a younger son.

Actually I can't claim credit for finding that, as it's mentioned by both
C.H. Hunter Blair in "Archaeologia Aeliana" and in the History of

> The only problem with the Isabel of 1331/2 being a Grey is that her
> theoretical sister Isabel was married toWilliam, Lord Heron and still
> in 1362. Assuming there weren't two siblings with the same name, it could
> mean William Felton was married 3 times.

That's a good point. It does seem unlikely there were two Isabels.

> On the other hand Mary de Monthermer was born in 1298, and perhaps had
> cohabiting with her husband before 1320 in which case Isabel may have been
> few years older than we assume.

I should also like to understand how Isabel came to be under the
guardianship of Sir William de Felton, as the Scalacronica claims. It seems
unlikely in any case that she would have been with her parents in Perth in
October 1332 if she was married by that time. And though the Scots Peerage
says she was captured at Perth by Edward Balliol (who had English support,
which might explain why Isabel would be taken to England), in fact that's
not true - Duncan and family were captured by the Scottish forces opposed to
Edward Balliol (whom Duncan had been supporting for several months).

It does seem to me that John, as well as Duncan, must have been a son of
Isabel of Fife. This hinges on whether the Isabel, wife of William de
Felton, who appears in the fine of 1344 was Isabel of Fife (because the
parties to that fine are described as John's parents in his IPM). On the one
hand there is the petition in June 1351 for a benefice for Duncan, who is
clearly a son of Isabel of Fife. Unless Duncan was younger than seven at
this time, the William and Isabel who appear in 1344 must be his parents (we
know that Isabel of Fife survived William de Felton).

As well as that, there's the statement of Scalacronica that Isabel's
marriage was to have been given to Robert the Steward of Scotland, but
instead married William de Felton. I assume that places the marriage to
Felton before about 1337, when the eldest son of Robert the Steward (later
Robert II of Scotland) was born.

Perhaps this part of the problem can definitely be settled by looking into
the history of the manor of Hinton, Northamptonshire (settled in 1344 on
William and Isabel and the heirs of their bodies) in the period of 30 years
or so by which Isabel of Fife survived William. If we are lucky there may be
a reference to the manor being held by Isabel...

Chris Phillips

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