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From: "Rick Eaton" <>
Subject: Re: Ambiguous citation in benchmark history
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 00:03:30 -0400


A P.S.

A footnote to The Normans of South Wales, 1070-1171,
referring to Eyton's work, seems to confirm that there was,
in fact, a Hugh, son of Warin.


12 Eyton, Antiquities of Shropshire, VII, 205-206. Eyton
holds that Rainault was merely exercising the post during
the minority of Warin's son, Hugh, to whom Rainault
transferred the office and its lands sometime after 1102.

Regardless, my questions stand.

Rick Eaton

Voice: 203.453.6261 Fax:203.453.0076






----------
>From: "Rick Eaton" <>
>To:
>Subject: Ambiguous citation in benchmark history
>Date: Wed, Jul 10, 2002, 11:43 PM
>

> I wonder if any list members will be able to comment more
> authoritatively that the eminent co-authors, Owen and
> Blakeway, of the History of Shrewsbury, 1825, whose
> ambiguous citations contribute confusion to my research of
> Warin the Bald, apparent first Norman Sheriff of Shropshire.
>
> Page 39: "As the earl was obliged to be frequently absent
> from Shropshire, he appointed as his vicecoms, or
> substitute, the above mentioned Warin, who, however, had
> deceased *without children*, at least without male issue,
> before the compilation of Domesday, as he was succeeded in
> that honorable office by his brother Reginald or Rainald."
>
> Page 29: "...but it semms nearly certain that Warin, besides
> a son Hugh, left also a daughter, wife to this Alan
> (Fitzflaald, father of William and Walter Fitzalan); and
> that their son William, on the death of his great uncle
> Rainald without issue succeeded, in those unsettled times to
> the family estates, to the exclusion of his uncle Hugh.
>
> The inconsistent statements are pretty clear and beg the
> following questions:
>
> 1. Was there a Hugh, son of Warin, or not?
>
> 2. Can anyone further identify him?
>
> 3. What became of him and why, if he was rightful heir to
> his father, would Hugh's descendants be "excluded?"
>
> 4.. Who might these descendants be?
>
> 5. Could those descendants be FitzWarins?
>
> Rick Eaton
>
> Voice: 203.453.6261 Fax:203.453.0076
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----------
>>From: malinda <>
>>To:
>>Subject: Re: Liulph Lord Lumley
>>Date: Wed, Jul 10, 2002, 2:42 PM
>>
>
>> More input from Learned Cousin....~m
>>
>>
>> Liulph de Lumley was a popular nobleman, temp. Edward the
>> Confessor, mur.
>> by
>> Leofrin (Leobrin), Chaplain of Walcher de Lorraine, Bishop of
>> Durham, who
>> was entrusted with the earldom of Northumberland in c.1075 after
>> the
>> execution of Waltheof II, beheaded at Winchester, 31 May 1076,
>> Earl of Huntingdon, Northampton & Northumberland, son of Sigurd,
>> Earl of Sigurd, Earl of Northumberland, by his wife Aelfled, dau.
>> of Aldred
>> of Bernicia.
>>
>> Waltheof II m. c.1070, Judith de Lens b. 1054, who is called a
>> niece of
>> William
>> the Conqueror. Her father is still under discussion. Her mother,
>> Adelaide
>> (Adelis)
>> b. ca. 1030, d. bef 1090, Countess de Aumale was a full sister of
>> William
>> the
>> Conqueror and married three times.
>>
>> Liulf de Lumley was mur. 14 May 1080; his marriage with Algitha
> of
>> Northumberland, dau. of Uchtred the Bold, Earl of Northumberland,
>> mur. 1017,
>> and his wife Elgiva of England, dau. of Ethelred the Unready,
> King
>> of
>> England,
>> produced at least two sons :
>>
>> [ Algitha later remarried Maldred fitzCrinan, Lord of Carlisle &
>> Allerdale
>> (Altadala), d. 1045.]
>>
>> 1. Uchtred de Lumley from whom descended Roger de Lumley who m.
>> Sybil de Morewic, dau. of Hugh de Morwic d. 1261.
>> Sybil de Morewic m. (2) Lawrence de St. Maur. Sybil's sister
>> Beatrix de
>> Morewic m. John de Roseles. and another sister
>> Theophania de Morwic m.1268 Sir John de Bulmer, Knt. of Wilton in
>> Cleveland, who became 6th Baron of Bulmer.
>> Their dau. Eve de Bulmer m. Sir Henry Fitz Hugh, 1st Baron
> of
>> Ravensworth, d. 1356. Their daughter Annabel m. Sir Henry le
>> Vavasour,
>> becoming the progenitors of our Wrights of Bolton-on-Swale,
>> co.York.
>>
>> 2. Osbert de Stafford had a daughter Ormonda who m. Robert de
>> Persall
>> (oink-oink) of Persall, in Parish of Eccleshall,Co. Stafford,
> occ.
>> 1068.
>>
>> J.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>


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