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From: "Stewart, Peter" <>
Subject: RE: Ambiguous citation in benchmark history
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 09:40:40 +1000


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rick Eaton [mailto:]
> Sent: Thursday, 11 July 2002 13:43
> To:
> Subject: Ambiguous citation in benchmark history
>
>
> I wonder if any list members will be able to comment more
> authoritatively that the eminent co-authors, Owen and
> Blakeway, of the History of Shrewsbury, 1825, whose
> ambiguous citations contribute confusion to my research of
> Warin the Bald, apparent first Norman Sheriff of Shropshire.
>
> Page 39: "As the earl was obliged to be frequently absent
> from Shropshire, he appointed as his vicecoms, or
> substitute, the above mentioned Warin, who, however, had
> deceased *without children*, at least without male issue,
> before the compilation of Domesday, as he was succeeded in
> that honorable office by his brother Reginald or Rainald."
>
> Page 29: "...but it semms nearly certain that Warin, besides
> a son Hugh, left also a daughter, wife to this Alan
> (Fitzflaald, father of William and Walter Fitzalan); and
> that their son William, on the death of his great uncle
> Rainald without issue succeeded, in those unsettled times to
> the family estates, to the exclusion of his uncle Hugh.
>
> The inconsistent statements are pretty clear and beg the
> following questions:
>
> 1. Was there a Hugh, son of Warin, or not?
>
> 2. Can anyone further identify him?
>
> 3. What became of him and why, if he was rightful heir to
> his father, would Hugh's descendants be "excluded?"
>
> 4.. Who might these descendants be?
>
> 5. Could those descendants be FitzWarins?

The FitzWarin family of Shropshire was decended from Warin de Meer (aka
Guarin de Metz), a different man. He is supposed to have come to England
from Lorraine and may have been an adherent of Matilda the Empress during
her brief reign as lady (or queen) of the English in 1141. This Warin was
sheriff of Gloucester and died ca 1146. His wife was Miletta de Whittington,
dau of Ralf ap Tewdwr & Maud Peverel, lady of Whittington, Shropshire.

Although Rick has expressed reservations about the work in other respects, I
haven't seen any challenge to the basic genealogical evidence accepted for
this by Janet Meisel in _Barons of the Welsh Frontier: The Corbet, Pantulf,
and Fitz Warin Families, 1066-1272_ (Lincoln, Nebraska & London, 1980).

Peter Stewart


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