Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2002-07 > 1026774079

Subject: Re: Siblings to Alice de Harcourt?
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 19:05:16 EDT

Dear Tim:
You are right that Burke is sometimes shaky or worse, but I have the feeling
that people accept Dormant and Extinct more than most. For instance, Ed Mann
does not add "Caveatlector" as a warning when it is used as a citation.

More to the point, I looked in CP XII/1: 349, which said that "John Lestrange
II, s. and h. In 1196/7 he acquired rights in land at Knockin, Salop, from
his cousins, das. of his uncle Guy." Note "(d) Pipe Roll Soc., vol. xx
[Feet of Fines, 7 and 8 Ric. I] nos. 78 and 89. See also Idem, vol. xxiii
[Feet of Fines 9 Ric. I], 110." I don't have access to these documents, can
someone who does take a look at them?

I checked and neither Noel or Harcourt is covered in CP.

Regards, Charlie

"In message <>

> Hi,
> Robert S Baxter ()in soc.genealogy.medieval for
> 2001-05-27 wrote:
> "Dear Tim,
> I have the following siblings including Alice.
> 1. William de Harcourt m Alice Noel dtr of Thomas Noel and Margaret le
> Strange, dtr of Guy.
> 2. Oliver de Harcourt
> 3. John de Harcourt
> 4. Robert de Harcourt m Dionysia dtr and co-heir of Pipard
> 5. Alice de Harcourt m (1) John de Limesi (2) Waleran de Newburgh.
> Since this information came from the Internet I cannot vouch for its
> reliability. But it is a start."
> In Burke's Dormant and Extinct Peerages, p. 261, the author lists the
> offspring as named. He goes on that the heir, William, called "The
> Englishman," indeed married Alice, "eldest dau. and co-heir of Sir Thomas
> Noel, of Ronton, and Ellenhall, by Margaret, his wife, eldest dau. and
> co-heir of Guy le Strange." There is more about Guy le Strange on p. 515.

Many thanks for that reply. While I have a margin of correlation that
Burke may be right in this case, his method was usually to ask the
families concerned for their pedigree. In other words he did little or
no research himself. If the families had done their work well, then
Burke was good, otherwise not. But in either case, the flaw in Burke is
that he does not tell you how to verify his information: there is no
reference to any source that one could go to to see what it really said.

Tim Powys-Lybbe
For a patchwork of bygones:";

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