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From:
Subject: The Kindred of Hugh le Despenser (revisited)
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 13:15:08 EDT


Saturday, 20 July, 2002


Dear All,

Over the last few years several posts to SGM (primarily by Douglas
Richardson) have touched on the relationships between Hugh le Despenser 'the
younger' (husband of Eleanor de Clare; exe. 24 Nov 1326) and numerous other
members of the English nobility. Primary references were provided by
Douglas, extracted from Pierre Chaplais' book, War of Saint-Sardos, 1323-1325
- see his post of 14 March 2002, <Hugh Despenser's kinsfolk: Basset, Grey,
Haudlo, Keynes, Lacy, Segrave, Warenne> .

Prior posts have shown a few of these relationships, including that with
John de Segrave [1] and Richard de Grey of Codnor [2]. However, many
relationships have yet to be resolved, both from this source and others -
Douglas noted an evident relationship between Edmund de Lacy, earl of
Lincoln, and Hugh le Despenser (k. at Evesham, 4 Aug 1265), grandfather of
Hugh 'the younger', which had yet to be explained.

One explanation seems most probable, although supporting evidence is
wanting at this point. As the ancestry of Hugh 'the younger' is well
established in other lines, the connection is most certainly with the mother
of Hugh his grandfather [for simplicity's sake, I will refer to him hereafter
as Hugh II]. With Hugh II's birthdate of say 1223, his mother most likely
would have been born in an outward range of say 1180 to 1210.

A strong possibility, given the relationships claimed in Chaplais' book
and elsewhere, would be:

1. That Hugh II's mother was an otherwise unidentified
daughter of Saier IV de Quincy (d. 1219), Earl of
Winchester and MC Surety, presumably by his wife
Margaret de Beaumont.

2. That Hawise, mother of Ralph Basset, 2nd Lord Basset
of Drayton (d. 1342/3) who is also identified as
'trescher cousin' by Hugh le Despenser, was Hawise
de Vere, a daughter of Robert de Vere, Earl of
Oxford (d. 1296) by Alice de Sanford [3].

These two identifications, if solid, would provide the following chart
and support the relationships given in Chaplais and elsewhere. <L> indicates
individuals identified as kinsman by Edmund de Lacy, Earl of Lincoln; <D>
indicates individuals identified as kinsmen by Hugh le Despenser 'the
younger' [shown below as Hugh IV].

_________________
I I
Saier de = Margaret de Amice de = Simon de
Quincy I Beaumont Beaumont I Montfort
d. 1219 I I d. 1188
___________I_____________ _ _ _ _ _ I__________
I I I I
Hawise = Hugh de Robert de ___ de Quincy Simon de
I Vere Quincy = Hugh I le Montfort
I Earl of dvp 1217 Despenser Earl of
I Oxford = Hawise of I Leicester
I d. 1263 Chester I d. 1218
I I_______ I____ I
I I I I
I I I I
Robert de Vere Margaret Hugh II Simon de
Earl of Oxford = John k. 1265 Montfort
d. bef 7 Sep 1296 de Lacy <L> Earl of
= Alice de Sanford Earl of I Leicester
I Lincoln I k. 1265
I d. 1240 I <L>
____I______ _ _ _ _ I_____ I________
I I I I I
Joan = Alfonso Hawise Edmund de Hugh III
William de Vere = Ralph Lacy, Earl le Despenser
de Warenne Basset of Lincoln Earl of
dvp 1286 d. 1299 d. 1258 Winchester
I I <L> exe. 1326
I I I
I I I
John de Warenne Ralph Basset Hugh IV le
Earl of Surrey Lord Basset of Despenser
<D> Drayton, d. 1342/3 exe. 1326
<D> <D>

The above reconstruction would make John de Warenne a third cousin of
Hugh IV - in addition to their relationship through descent from Maud le
Marshal [wife of Hugh le Bigod, 2ndly of William de Warenne]. It would place
Ralph Basset (d. 1342/3) as a third cousin as well. The de Lacy connection
would also be explained, as this would place Hugh II as first cousin once
removed of his 'kinsman' Edmund de Lacy, earl of Lincoln. An explanation as
to the Keynes and Haudlo relationships is still wanting.

In addition to explaining these relationships, this theory would also
provide a close connection to the family of the Earls of Winchester (although
not a requisite one) that Edward II may have relied on in his grant in 1322
of that earldom to Hugh le Despenser 'the elder' [shown above as Hugh III].

This theoretical de Quincy link for the Despenser family may have support
in the histories of the Leicestershire holdings of the two families. Should
anyone have any 'related' theories, suggestions, or evidence in support (or
disproof) of the foregoing, that would be most welcome.

Good luck, and good hunting.

John *



NOTES

[1] Given in Douglas' original post.

[2] J. Ravilious, 15 March 2002: <Re: Hugh le
Despenser's Kinsfolk>

[3] This theoretical identification is currently being
pursued by myself and others; certainly any feedback
or suggestions (nay even evidence) is welcome from
others of the list.



* John P. Ravilious






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