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Subject: Re: de Thouars and de Faye (Bramley, Surrey) in 'DD' - ?Q
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 19:20:14 EDT


Monday, 22 July, 2002


Dear Cris,

Thanks for your reply, and the added review of the aimless Aimerys....

Going back over my charts and your post, it would seem Boussard had
confused Aimery VI de Thouars with Aimery I de Chatellerault - the first
construct would make Raoul de Faye a cousin of Eleanor of Aquitaine, as
opposed to her uncle (via the Chatellerault relationship). Given the
history of the particular Agnes of Poitou, Boussard's penchant for confusion
(or misstatement) on other points, and the opinions of other authorities [1]
on the subject, I'll stick with the Chatellerault connection for the moment.

As to Raoul de Faye as seneschal of Poitou, this I find running through
W. L. Warren's Henry II and other sources. Well actually, Warren says (p.
103),

' Eleanor is said to have reposed complete trust in
her uncle Ralph de Faye, who was seneschal of
Saintonge and seems to have been regarded as her
deputy in Aquitaine. [1]

[WARREN's footnote #1:
Materials for the History of Becket, V, 197
{ed. J. C. Robertson, 7 vols. (Rolls Series,
1875-85}
Recueil des Actes de Henri II, Introduction 416
{ed. L. Delisle et E. Berger, 4 vols. (Paris,
1906-27}
Boussard, 354 and nn. 3 and 5.
{Le Gouvernement d'Henri II, as you cite} ] '

There may be other contemporaneous references to Raoul de Faye: on p.
121, on the subject of 'Aquitanian lords who had always baulked at Angevin
authority (and especially by her uncle, Ralph de Faye)...' Warren makes
reference to:

1. Roger of Howden, Gesta , I, 42;
2. Gervase of Canterbury, I, 242;
3. Gerald of Wales, V, 304; and
4. Materials for the History of Becket, V, 197.

Aquitaine itself was somewhat amorphous: it certainly meant something
different ca. 1173 than it would 50 years later (thanks to John of England,
Philippe Augustus and their various supporters and enemies).

Good luck, and good hunting.

John *



[1] Re: which, see also other SGM posts on the Faye
identifications, including the Feb 1999 post by
John Carmi Parsons.



* John P. Ravilious




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