GEN-MEDIEVAL-L ArchivesArchiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2002-07 > 1027916237
From: "Stewart, Peter" <>
Subject: RE: Anne de Dreux (was Re: John de Bohun m 1325 Alice de Arundel)
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 14:21:45 +1000
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [mailto:]
> Sent: Monday, 29 July 2002 11:45
> Subject: Re: Anne de Dreux (was Re: John de Bohun m 1325 Alice de
> Sunday, 28 July, 2002
> Dear Leo,
> Thanks for the rapid lookups. And also, thank you Peter
> for poking some holes in the established rendition of Robert
> de Dreux' marriages.
The hole is bigger than my musings suggested - I wondered about later
intermarriage between the families concerned. Andrew W Lewis [_Royal
Succession in Capetian France: Studies in Familial Order and the State_
(Cambridge, Mass & London, 1981) says that a mistaken first marriage, to
Agnes de Garlande, was ascribed to Robert I of Dreux from an interpolation
in the copy of a charter given by King Philippe II Auguste - this actually
referred not to Robert I but to his dedscendant Robert IV, count of Dreux &
Braine (died 14 November 1282) who married (before 1260) Béatrix, countess
So the next question is, who was mother of Robert I's eldest daughter Adela
(or Alix, died after January 1205/before March 1210)? She married first ca
1160 (as his second wife) Valeran III, seigneur of Breteuil-en-Beauvaisis &
Coucy (died on crusade in Laodicia January 1148), secondly in 1161 Guy II,
seigneur of Châtillon-sur-Marne (died ca 1170/2), thirdly ca 1174 Jean I,
seigneur of Thourotte (died 1176/7) and fourthly in 1183 (as his first wife)
Raoul I de Nesle, count of Soissons (died 4 January 1235).
Patrick van Kerrebrouck isn't much help here: in _Les Capétiens 987-1328_
(Villeneuve d'Ascq, 2000) he says that Adela was born from Robert's second
marriage, to Agnes de Baudement, dame of Braine-sur-Vesle (died 24 July
1204), daughter of Guy de Baudement, seneschal of Champagne. However, he
says that Agnes was born ca 1145/6, while Robert was presumably still
married to his first wife Havise (Amicie) de Saresbury (died in or perhaps
before 1152), daughter (though van Kerrebrouck confuses this) of Walter fitz
Edward de Saresbury, sheriff of Wiltshire & Sibyl de Chaworth.
> Interestingly, not only does Agnes de Garlande appear in
> my records as
> the mother of the younger Simon de Montfort (d. 12 Mar
> 1180/1), but also of a
> daughter Agnes - wife of Waleran, count of Meulan (d. 10 Apr
> 1166). It would
> definitely be remarkable (if not unbelievable) that she would
> have had a son
> Simon, AND a daughter Anne/Agnes, by a second husband (Robert
> de Dreux).
> This one is even more interesting than I thought. If the
> spouse of
> Eustace II de Fiennes was in fact 'Anne (Agnes) de Dreux', it
> is strange that
> her parentage had not been previously resolved. Hopefully,
> that will be the
> result of the current effort.
> Whatever I might turn up (positive or negative), I will pass on.
> Good luck, and good hunting.
> John *
> * John P. Ravilious
|RE: Anne de Dreux (was Re: John de Bohun m 1325 Alice de Arundel) by "Stewart, Peter" <>|