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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2002-07 > 1028047178


From: Francisco Antonio Doria <>
Subject: Re: Pero Gomes Barroso's wife's ancestry
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 13:45:41 -0300 (ART)
In-Reply-To: <p04310102b96c29cba919@[66.245.44.159]>



Nat,

On your doubt about the Conde D. Pedro text: yes, the
wording is ambiguous, but it seems to indicate that
Fernão Peres was the son of another woman.

I'll look it up in Pizarro's recent (99) book on
medieval lineages, but let me add that my discussion
of the Abunazar (Aboazar is attested by the Count, but
there is documentary evidence for Abunazar, including
the Santo Tirso document, where one reads Abuuazar,
with possibly the 2nd u for n) lineage appears in the

costadoria.pdf at

http://doria.genealogias.org

- a long text I wrote for the benefit of my relatives,
with several appendices on old Portuguese lineages;
there you'll find my discussion of the Abunazar
question. Alas, it's in Portuguese - no problem for
you, Nat, but I know that my mother language is vastly
unknown in the US... (It's close to Spanish, however,
and if you read Spanish, you'll certainly understand
Portuguese.)

I'll get back to this. Best, chico

--- Nathaniel Taylor <>
escreveu: > Especially for Chico, Maria Emma, Manoel,
and Todd:
>
> [this was posted separately to sgm last week, but
> most of the above
> contribute on the e-mail list side]
>
> Lately I've done some more reading into the career,
> poetry and
> ancestry of Pero Gomes Barroso and the identity of
> his wife (nos. 52
> & 53 in the Ahnantafel of Sancha de Ayala; we talked
> about them here
> back in May).
>
> On May 5 Manoel Cesar Furtado posted the descent in
> the _Livro de
> Linhagens do conde D. Pedro_, of the wife of Pero
> Gomes Barroso from
> the Acevedo family, as follows (from titles 30 and
> 52 of the LL, in
> Mattoso's ed.):
>
> ...
> 1. Pero Mendes de Acevedo [= Velasquida
> Rodrigues (de Trastamara)]
> 2. Fernão Pires de Acevedo (m. in Toledo) = NN
> (an 'honorable
> marriage')
> 3. Chamoa Fernandes = Pedro Gomes Barroso
>
> But on May 4 Maria Emma Escobar had provided a
> precis of the work of
> Javier Rodriguez Marquina ("Linajes mozárabes de
> Toledo", pp. 55-64 &
> charts), identifying as Pero Gomes Barroso's
> father-in-law one
> Fernando Pérez 'el Portugales'. This Fernando Perez
> is apparently
> descended from an Ermildo Melendez, who held
> properties in Acevedo in
> Portugal, along with many proporties in Toledo,
> Pantoja, etc., which
> passed to his sons (& descendants). Fernando Perez
> founded the
> (apparently no longer extant) monastery of the
> Santisima Trinidad in
> Toledo, where his agnate descendants the Pantoja
> were buried.
>
> From Rodriguez Marquina, the stemma would be:
>
> ...
> 1. Ermildo Melendez
> 2. Pedro Ermildez 'de Portugal'
> 3. Fernando Perez 'El Portogalés' = Mayorí
> 4. NN (elsewhere in the same article given as
> Francisca) = Pedro
> Gomez Barroso
>
> Now, the only evidence for this identity of the wife
> of Pedro Gomez
> Barroso is cited (p. 63) as "trabajos inéditos del
> Marqués de Tola de
> Gaytán, que investigo el archivo de los condes de
> Villafranca de
> Gaytán, en Vergara (Guipuzcoa)." Rodriguez Marquina
> seems to show
> the link as conjectural.
>
> So: which is right? The work of Rodriguez Marquina
> hasn't inspired
> confidence in certain other specifics. the _Livro
> de Linhagens do
> Conde Don Pedro_, on the other hand, is a classic
> but flawed source,
> though as a 14th-century authority it is closer to a
> 'primary source'
> than, say, Dugdale's Baronage. But the coincidence
> of both lines
> showing some connection to 'Acevedo' is striking:
> according to Don
> Pedro, the father comes from the progenitors of the
> noble family of
> that name, while in the other case, it is an unknown
> Toledan /
> Portuguese lineage which appears, in contemporary
> documents, to hold
> some lands in Acevedo. So maybe the memory of the
> Toledan family
> connected to Acevedo was somehow morphed into the
> father-in-law being
> 'd'Azevedo'.
>
> If one believes Conde Don Pedro and follows the
> ancestry in the Livro
> de Linhagens (title 21), then one appears to get a
> link to the folks
> Chico likes to talk about:
>
> 1. Trastamiro Aboazar, generation 19 in Chico's
> 'A Boa Semente'
> chart, viewable as .pdf at:
>
>
>
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fettesi/semen1x.pdf
>
> 2. Gonçalo Trastamires (da Maia) = Mencia
> Rodriguez
> 3. Mem Gonçalvez (da Maia) = Leonguida Soarez
> 4. Gonçalo Meendez (da Maia) 'o Lidador' =
> Leonor Veegas
> 5. Meninha Gonçalves = Rodrigo Froiaz de
> Trastamara 'o Boo'
> 6. Valasquida Rodrigues = Pero Mendez d'Azevedo
> 7. Fernan Pires d'Azevedo = NN
> 8. Chamoa Fernandes = Pero Gomes Barroso
>
> [Now, when one looks at LL (title 52.A.4, p. 2:62)
> closely,
> generation 6-7 is unclear:
>
> "este Pero Meendez d'Azevedo foi casado com
> dona Valasquida
> Rodriguez, filha de dom Rodrigo Froiaz, o
> Boo, de Trastamar
> [...] e fez em ela:
> dom Joham Pirez da Veiga,
> e Soeiro Pirez d'Azevedo,
> e dona Maria Pirez.
> E houve outro filho que houve nome Fernam
> Pirez, que foi
> casado em Toledo, e houve filhos..."
>
> Now, I haven't studied the style and scope of Don
> Pedro's text very
> fully, but doesn't this wording suggest that this
> 'other son' of Pero
> Meendez, Fernam Pirez, isn't necessarily the child
> of Valasquida
> Rodriguez?]
>
> So: is the Conde Don Pedro to be believed for the
> identity of the
> wife of Pero Gomes Barroso, or is Rodriguez
> Marquina? If one follows
> the former, does she descend from Chico's favorite
> Aboazar via
> Valasquita Rodrigues?
>
> Comments?
>
> Nat Taylor
>

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