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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2002-07 > 1028061861


From: Francisco Antonio Doria <>
Subject: Re: Pero Gomes Barroso's wife's ancestry
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 17:50:28 -0300 (ART)
In-Reply-To: <p04310101b96c7877e593@[165.121.219.26]>


Nat,

I will plead for the marriage Pero Gomes Barroso x
Chamoa Fernandes de Azevedo. This is Pizarro's view.
I've also found a better line from her to the
Abunazar.

Just give me a few moments; I'll give full references.
Best, chico

--- Nathaniel Taylor <>
escreveu: > At 1:45 PM -0300 7/30/02, Francisco
Antonio Doria
> wrote:
>
> >On your doubt about the Conde D. Pedro text: yes,
> the
> >wording is ambiguous, but it seems to indicate that
> >Fernão Peres was the son of another woman.
> >
> >I'll look it up in Pizarro's recent (99) book on
> >medieval lineages
>
> Chico,
>
> Thanks for your comment, which confirms my
> impression. I'm still not
> sure how to weigh Conde D. Pedro against the
> interpretation by
> Rodriguez Marquina on the wife of Pero Gomes
> Barroso, but neither
> option, alas, can be understood to hold a descent
> from the Maia and
> 'Abunazar'. Sancha enthusiasts and other medieval
> Castilians will
> have to look elsewhere to connect to that line.
>
> Nat
>
> >--- Nathaniel Taylor <>
> >escreveu: > Especially for Chico, Maria Emma,
> Manoel,
> >and Todd:
> >>
> >> [this was posted separately to sgm last week,
> but
> >> most of the above
> >> contribute on the e-mail list side]
> >>
> >> Lately I've done some more reading into the
> career,
> >> poetry and
> >> ancestry of Pero Gomes Barroso and the identity
> of
> >> his wife (nos. 52
> >> & 53 in the Ahnantafel of Sancha de Ayala; we
> talked
> >> about them here
> >> back in May).
> >>
> >> On May 5 Manoel Cesar Furtado posted the descent
> in
> >> the _Livro de
> >> Linhagens do conde D. Pedro_, of the wife of
> Pero
> >> Gomes Barroso from
> >> the Acevedo family, as follows (from titles 30
> and
> >> 52 of the LL, in
> >> Mattoso's ed.):
> >>
> >> ...
> >> 1. Pero Mendes de Acevedo [= Velasquida
> >> Rodrigues (de Trastamara)]
> >> 2. Fernão Pires de Acevedo (m. in Toledo) =
> NN
> >> (an 'honorable
> >> marriage')
> >> 3. Chamoa Fernandes = Pedro Gomes Barroso
> >>
> >> But on May 4 Maria Emma Escobar had provided a
> >> precis of the work of
> >> Javier Rodriguez Marquina ("Linajes mozárabes de
> >> Toledo", pp. 55-64 &
> >> charts), identifying as Pero Gomes Barroso's
> >> father-in-law one
> >> Fernando Pérez 'el Portugales'. This Fernando
> Perez
> >> is apparently
> >> descended from an Ermildo Melendez, who held
> >> properties in Acevedo in
> >> Portugal, along with many proporties in Toledo,
> >> Pantoja, etc., which
> >> passed to his sons (& descendants). Fernando
> Perez
> >> founded the
> >> (apparently no longer extant) monastery of the
> >> Santisima Trinidad in
> >> Toledo, where his agnate descendants the Pantoja
> >> were buried.
> >>
> >> From Rodriguez Marquina, the stemma would be:
> >>
> >> ...
> >> 1. Ermildo Melendez
> >> 2. Pedro Ermildez 'de Portugal'
> >> 3. Fernando Perez 'El Portogalés' = Mayorí
> >> 4. NN (elsewhere in the same article given
> as
> >> Francisca) = Pedro
> >> Gomez Barroso
> >>
> >> Now, the only evidence for this identity of the
> wife
> >> of Pedro Gomez
> >> Barroso is cited (p. 63) as "trabajos inéditos
> del
> >> Marqués de Tola de
> >> Gaytán, que investigo el archivo de los condes
> de
> >> Villafranca de
> >> Gaytán, en Vergara (Guipuzcoa)." Rodriguez
> Marquina
> >> seems to show
> >> the link as conjectural.
> >>
> >> So: which is right? The work of Rodriguez
> Marquina
> >> hasn't inspired
> >> confidence in certain other specifics. the
> _Livro
> >> de Linhagens do
> >> Conde Don Pedro_, on the other hand, is a
> classic
> >> but flawed source,
> >> though as a 14th-century authority it is closer
> to a
> >> 'primary source'
> >> than, say, Dugdale's Baronage. But the
> coincidence
> >> of both lines
> >> showing some connection to 'Acevedo' is
> striking:
> >> according to Don
> >> Pedro, the father comes from the progenitors of
> the
> >> noble family of
> >> that name, while in the other case, it is an
> unknown
> >> Toledan /
> >> Portuguese lineage which appears, in
> contemporary
> >> documents, to hold
> >> some lands in Acevedo. So maybe the memory of
> the
> >> Toledan family
> >> connected to Acevedo was somehow morphed into
> the
> >> father-in-law being
> >> 'd'Azevedo'.
> >>
> >> If one believes Conde Don Pedro and follows the
> >> ancestry in the Livro
> >> de Linhagens (title 21), then one appears to get
> a
> >> link to the folks
> >> Chico likes to talk about:
> >>
> >> 1. Trastamiro Aboazar, generation 19 in
> Chico's
> >> 'A Boa Semente'
> >> chart, viewable as .pdf at:
> > >
> >>
> >>
>
>http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fettesi/semen1x.pdf
> >>
> >> 2. Gonçalo Trastamires (da Maia) = Mencia
> >> Rodriguez
> >> 3. Mem Gonçalvez (da Maia) = Leonguida
> Soarez
> >> 4. Gonçalo Meendez (da Maia) 'o Lidador' =
> >> Leonor Veegas
> >> 5. Meninha Gonçalves = Rodrigo Froiaz de
> >> Trastamara 'o Boo'
> >> 6. Valasquida Rodrigues = Pero Mendez
> d'Azevedo
> >> 7. Fernan Pires d'Azevedo = NN
> >> 8. Chamoa Fernandes = Pero Gomes Barroso
> >>
> >> [Now, when one looks at LL (title 52.A.4, p.
> 2:62)
> >> closely,
> >> generation 6-7 is unclear:
> >>
> >> "este Pero Meendez d'Azevedo foi casado
> com
> >> dona Valasquida
> >> Rodriguez, filha de dom Rodrigo Froiaz, o
> >> Boo, de Trastamar
> >> [...] e fez em ela:
> >> dom Joham Pirez da Veiga,
> >> e Soeiro Pirez d'Azevedo,
> >> e dona Maria Pirez.
> >> E houve outro filho que houve nome Fernam
> >> Pirez, que foi
> >> casado em Toledo, e houve filhos..."
> >>
> >> Now, I haven't studied the style and scope of
> Don
> >> Pedro's text very
> >> fully, but doesn't this wording suggest that
> this
>
=== message truncated ===

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