Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2002-07 > 1028168027

From: "Rosie Bevan" <>
Subject: Re: Liber Vitae and the Earls of Athol (was Re: Liber Vitae ... Bigod)
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 14:13:47 +1200
References: <>

Dear John

Thanks for your response. I confess I don't know much about this particular
family but your analysis explains the four names which appear below the ones
I mentioned. They are

Willelmus Cumin
Christien Cumin
Edeva Cumin
Ada Cumin

Presumably they are the children of Hextilda by her first husband Richard
Comyn, with William being her son and heir?


----- Original Message -----
From: <>
To: <>
Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 7:03 AM
Subject: Liber Vitae and the Earls of Athol (was Re: Liber Vitae ... Bigod)

> Wednesday, 31 July, 2002
> Dear Rosie and Chris, et al.,
> Another marvelous find (group of finds, really). It's hard to decide
> where to start, let alone how....
> To pick on one set of facts, the family grouping from the Liber Vitae
> Malcolm, Earl of Athol (Malcolmus filius Mal. = Malcolm mac Madadh) is
> extremely interesting. For two reasons in particular:
> 1. Malcolm's wife is given as 'Hextilda filia
> Uchthredi.' She was certainly the heiress
> of Lochaber and Tynedale, who was married to
> Richard Comyn (d. 1182) and brought those lands
> to that marriage: her son William Comyn was her
> heir, and ancester of the subsequent Comyn lords
> of Badenoch and Earls of Buchan, & c.
> I was not aware of such a marriage, nor I believe
> was anyone else. It did not affect the inheritance
> of those lands, and Malcolm's son Henry did succeed
> as Earl of Athol, so that with regards to the
> Comyn family and that of Athol this was basically
> a genealogical 'bump in the night'.
> 2. It appears from the listing of individuals following
> Malcolm 'comes' and his wife Hextilda, that Simon
> and 'Henricus' were their sons [Henry being the
> succeeding Earl of Athol]. From the order of the
> text it would appear that the next two,
> ' Dunecanus frater ejus,
> Bedoch soror ejus,.. '
> Were brother and sister of the subject, Earl
> Malcolm. However, 'Bedoch' appears to be Bethoc,
> which happens to be the name of the wife of Uhtred
> of Tynedale, and mother of Hextilda!
> Based on the foregoing information, I would reconstruct the families
> follows:
> Donald III
> King of Scots
> I
> I
> Uhtred = Bethoc
> lord of I heiress of Lochaber
> Tynedale I
> I
> I
> 1) Richard Comyn = Hextilda = 2) Malcolm mac Madadh
> lord of Tynedale I I Earl of Athol
> d. 1182 I I d. bef Sept 1198
> _______________I I
> I _________________I_______________________
> I I I I I I I
> William Simon Henry Duncan Bethoc others
> Comyn (dvp) Earl of
> Lord of Lochaber Athol
> and Earl of d. bef 1211
> Buchan (dju)
> d. 1233
> Malcolm, Earl of Athol and Hextilda were related in the 3rd degree
> (descendants of Duncan I, King of Scots), but this issue was either
> dispensed or (being in Scotland) summarily dispensed with.
> Please let me know of any issues or concerns you might note in this
> reconstruction. This will have a wide-ranging impact on the ancestry of
> individuals (primarily, those descended from John of Strathbogie, Earl of
> Athol, exe. 1306).
> An important aside: as Malcolm mac Madadh died before September 1198
> (see CP account; also SP), this will help in establishing a range of dates
> for the benefactions recorded in the Liber Vitae. Given the number of
> children indicated, and the death of Richard Comyn in 1182, the
> on p. 100 of vol. 13 must have occurred between say 1188 and Sept. 1198.
> Best regards, and many thanks.
> John *
> * John P. Ravilious

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