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From: "Rosie Bevan" <>
Subject: Re: Liber Vitae and the Earls of Athol (was Re: Liber Vitae ... Bigod)
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 14:13:47 +1200
References: <bf.24133427.2a798e87@aol.com>


Dear John

Thanks for your response. I confess I don't know much about this particular
family but your analysis explains the four names which appear below the ones
I mentioned. They are

Willelmus Cumin
Christien Cumin
Edeva Cumin
Ada Cumin

Presumably they are the children of Hextilda by her first husband Richard
Comyn, with William being her son and heir?

Cheers

Rosie
----- Original Message -----
From: <>
To: <>
Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 7:03 AM
Subject: Liber Vitae and the Earls of Athol (was Re: Liber Vitae ... Bigod)


> Wednesday, 31 July, 2002
>
>
> Dear Rosie and Chris, et al.,
>
> Another marvelous find (group of finds, really). It's hard to decide
> where to start, let alone how....
>
> To pick on one set of facts, the family grouping from the Liber Vitae
for
> Malcolm, Earl of Athol (Malcolmus filius Mal. = Malcolm mac Madadh) is
> extremely interesting. For two reasons in particular:
>
> 1. Malcolm's wife is given as 'Hextilda filia
> Uchthredi.' She was certainly the heiress
> of Lochaber and Tynedale, who was married to
> Richard Comyn (d. 1182) and brought those lands
> to that marriage: her son William Comyn was her
> heir, and ancester of the subsequent Comyn lords
> of Badenoch and Earls of Buchan, & c.
>
> I was not aware of such a marriage, nor I believe
> was anyone else. It did not affect the inheritance
> of those lands, and Malcolm's son Henry did succeed
> as Earl of Athol, so that with regards to the
> Comyn family and that of Athol this was basically
> a genealogical 'bump in the night'.
>
> 2. It appears from the listing of individuals following
> Malcolm 'comes' and his wife Hextilda, that Simon
> and 'Henricus' were their sons [Henry being the
> succeeding Earl of Athol]. From the order of the
> text it would appear that the next two,
>
> ' Dunecanus frater ejus,
> Bedoch soror ejus,.. '
>
> Were brother and sister of the subject, Earl
> Malcolm. However, 'Bedoch' appears to be Bethoc,
> which happens to be the name of the wife of Uhtred
> of Tynedale, and mother of Hextilda!
>
> Based on the foregoing information, I would reconstruct the families
as
> follows:
>
> Donald III
> King of Scots
> I
> I
> Uhtred = Bethoc
> lord of I heiress of Lochaber
> Tynedale I
> I
> I
> 1) Richard Comyn = Hextilda = 2) Malcolm mac Madadh
> lord of Tynedale I I Earl of Athol
> d. 1182 I I d. bef Sept 1198
> _______________I I
> I _________________I_______________________
> I I I I I I I
> William Simon Henry Duncan Bethoc others
> Comyn (dvp) Earl of
> Lord of Lochaber Athol
> and Earl of d. bef 1211
> Buchan (dju)
> d. 1233
>
>
> Malcolm, Earl of Athol and Hextilda were related in the 3rd degree
> (descendants of Duncan I, King of Scots), but this issue was either
readily
> dispensed or (being in Scotland) summarily dispensed with.
>
> Please let me know of any issues or concerns you might note in this
> reconstruction. This will have a wide-ranging impact on the ancestry of
many
> individuals (primarily, those descended from John of Strathbogie, Earl of
> Athol, exe. 1306).
>
> An important aside: as Malcolm mac Madadh died before September 1198
> (see CP account; also SP), this will help in establishing a range of dates
> for the benefactions recorded in the Liber Vitae. Given the number of
> children indicated, and the death of Richard Comyn in 1182, the
benefaction
> on p. 100 of vol. 13 must have occurred between say 1188 and Sept. 1198.
>
> Best regards, and many thanks.
>
> John *
>
>
> * John P. Ravilious
>
>
>
>
>


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