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From: "Rosie Bevan" <>
Subject: Re: The Grey sisters of Heton
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 23:18:40 +1200


Dear Chris

Thank you very much once again for your persistence and valuable input into
the Grey area. The identification of the record is a major step in the right
direction and so is the property in question!

Looking at the Kirkby's Inquest entries for Burton and Wilberfoss [Surtees
Soc pub. v.49 p.86/87], we find that in 1287 in

"BURTON Item idem haer' habet feod. in Burton iij car. terrae quas Thomas
Burton tenet, et ipse Percy de Comite, et Comes de rege; unde xxxiij car.
faciunt feod. unius milit."

"WILBERFOSE...unde Thomas Burdon habet in feodo in eadem xx bov.
terrae....Custancia, quae fuit uxor Alexandri Burdon, tenet, nomine dotis,
ij bov. per forinsecum dicto Percy. Item Letia Burdon ij bov. per forinsec
eidem Percy. [Item Alicia Burdon ij bov. per forinsecum eidem Percy]. Omnes
isti tenentes tenent de Philippo de Kyme, et ipse de Percy, et ipse de
Comite, et Comes de rege."

From these extracts we can see that there are up to four levels of tenancy -
Burdon, Kyme, Percy, King. However the focal point looks like it is the
Burdon/Burton tenancy which is of significance as Thomas was holding the
manor of Burton (he is the only tenant named) and the major landowner in
Wilberfoss holding 20 bovates. So it looks like the land in dispute in 1362
was that previously that held by the Burdons.

What exactly triggered the suit in 1362 is difficult to establish.

Looking through the Percy Cartulary it appears that Walter son of Walter
Heslerton died in 1351 aged 18. His father had died in 1349 of the
pestilence and his mother Eustacia Percy was an idiot from birth and died in
1367. I don't think that they have anything to do with the Greys.

A footnote from p.245 of Kirkby's Inquest records this.
"John Ughtred, nephew of Robert Ughtred of Scarborough, dean of York,
married Isabella, daughter of Sir John de Melsa. His IPM was taken in 26 Edw
I, his daughter Joan, then aged five years being his next heir. Isabella
Ughtred, his widow, re-married Brian de Burdon about 30 Edward I."

Looking at the IPM of John Ughtred [CIPM v.3 no.471] it is explained that
John de Melsa gave the manor of Gowthorp, Yorks. in free marriage to John
and Isabel as well as "9a. land and 1 a. of meadow held, of the enfeoffment
of Alexander de Gowthorp to him and his heirs of the heirs of John de Gray
by knight's service"

Where this is leading, I just don't know. Hopefully we are moving in the
right direction!

Cheers

Rosie


Chris Phillips wrote>>
Rosie Bevan wrote:
<<
The entry for William, Lord Heron of Ford, Northumberland d.1379 in
Complete Peerage, VI p.486, note (i), states that his wife's name was
Isabel, parentage unknown, "but it appears from De Banco R., 411
m.218, that she was aunt and coheir of William de Grey, dead by 1362.
Margaret, wife of Sir John de Eure, was another aunt and coheir and
other coheirs were Sir John Salvayn and Sir William de Felton. The
claimant was Sir Thomas de Grey in respect of the manor of Hundburton,
(a hamlet now called Humberton), near Stamford Bridge, Yorks."
>>


I've now had a look at this reference, and it turns out that the
description in Complete Peerage is rather incomplete and a little
misleading.

The reference is to the plea roll of the Court of Common Pleas for
Michaelmas Term 36 Edward III [1362; PRO CP40/411].

The plea is that of Thomas de Gray, knight (chivaler), against John
Salvayn, knight, kinsman and one of the heirs of William Gray, knight,
and John de Eure, knight, and Margar' his wife, aunt (amita) and
another of the heirs of the aforesaid William Gray is that they be
present to warrant, together with William de Felton, knight, kinsman
and another heir of the aforesaid William Gray, and William Heroun,
knight, and Isabella his wife, aunt and another heir of the aforesaid
William Gray, the manor of Hundburton juxta Staynfordbrigg with its
appurtenances of 3 messuages, 8 bovates and 120 acres of land, 20
acres of meadow and 120 acres of wood with appurtenances in Kexby,
Over Catton and Staynfordbrigg and a moiety of the manor of Wilberfos
with appurtenances, which Thomas Ughtred, knight, junior, claims
against him in the king's court*.
(The remainder of the entry concerns the non-appearance of John, John
and Margaret, and efforts to confiscate their lands to the value of
half those in dispute.)
[*an insertion above the line here appears to describe the lands as in
the aforesaid county [?]and in the county of [?]North[umberland?]. I
don't understand this, as they are all just to the east of York.]

As the four heirs were being called to warrant, presumably they had
previously conveyed the lands to Thomas de Gray, and they were now
being claimed by Sir Thomas Ughtred junior.

The lands concerned include "Hundburton", near Stamford Bridge, as CP
says. But CP is incorrect in saying it's the place now called
Humberton. That's a different place, just north-east of Boroughbridge.
The fines I found previously certainly relate to Humberton near
Boroughbridge (they mention Milby, nearby). I suspect that the
extracts Rosie found previously, mentioning the Ardernes, also relate
to the "wrong" Hundburton.

The Hundburton we are looking for is now called Burton Fields, in
Catton parish. This manor is discussed in the Victoria County History
of York, East Riding, vol.3, p.151:
"That part of Stamford Bridge East sometimes called Hundburton and
later Burton Fields was held separately under the Percys. In 1284-5
three carucates at 'Burton' were held by Thomas Burdon, or Burton,
Lord of Kexby, and in 1316 Brian Burdon and Eleanor Percy were lords
of Hundburton. Until the 17th century the descent is obscure.
Hundburton apparently belonged, like Scoreby, to the Nevilles. The
manor of 'Burtonfield' was referred to after the death of Richard
Neville in 1460, ..."

The other manor mentioned, Wilberfoss, is discussed in similar terms
on p.191:
Under the Percys the Kyme family had a mesne lordship. "Philip [of
Kyme] was described as a lord of Wilberfoss in 1316, along with
Eleanor Percy, who was then sole lord at Newton. Under the Kymes the
demesne tenants included the Burdon family, lords of Kexby. Robert
Burdon had six bovates in 1284-5; Thomas was granted free warren at
Wilberfoss in 1290. The subsequent descent of this estate is obscure
but in the 15th century it belonged, like Scoreby, to the Nevilles
[the first dated reference is 1474]"

The references to the manor of Scoreby in Catton parish may or may not
be a relevant clue to how Hundburton and Wilberfoss passed to the
Nevilles. Scoreby (pp.160,175) was held under the Percys by a minor
branch of the Percy family following, apparently, the marriage of
Isabel de Vescy to Peter de Percy (d.c.1315), and then by the Walter
de Heslerton (d.1349) who married Peter's daughter Eustacia. Walter's
son Walter died in 1367, and livery of the manor was granted in 1394
to Ralph Neville, the cousin and heir of the younger Walter's widow,
Euphemia.

At any rate, we are on the right track with the Burdon tenancies at
Hundburton and Wilberfoss, because the claimant of 1362, Sir Thomas
Ughtred junior, must be the later 2nd Lord Ughtred, whose mother was
Margaret, daughter of Brian Burdon of Kexby [Complete Peerage vol.12,
part 2, p.160].

Quite how the lands found their way into William Gray's hands, and the
basis of Thomas Ughtred's claim against his heirs, still aren't clear
to me, though.

Chris Phillips

From: Chris Phillips ()
Subject: Re: The Grey sisters of Heton
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
View this article only
Date: 2002-07-28 14:28:52 PST


Chris Phillips wrote:
> The references to the manor of Scoreby in Catton parish may or may not
> be a relevant clue to how Hundburton and Wilberfoss passed to the
> Nevilles.

I forgot to mention the alternative: that this may be a coincidence,
and that it may be (depending on just how "obscure" the descent of the
manors is) that it was the overlordship of the manors that passed to
the Nevilles. That wouldn't be very surprising, as the Eleanor Percy
who appears as "lord" in 1316 (i.e. overlord, under whom the Burdons
were tenants, I think) had a granddaughter Maud Percy, who married
John de Neville. The Nevilles that the Victoria County History speaks
of in connection with Hundburton and Wilberfoss are the descendants of
this Maud.

Just to complicate matters:

(1) Isabel, the widow of Peter de Percy - that is, apparently, Isabel
de Vescy, through whom Scoreby apparently came to the junior branch of
the Percys, afterwards (by 1323) married one Philip de Neville [VCH ii
126]. But judging by the account in CP, this was a distant cousin of
the Nevilles who later held Scoreby.

(2) Sutton upon Derwent was another manor that passed, like Scoreby,
from the junior branch of the Percys, via the Heslertons, to Ralph
Neville, earl of Westmorland (d. 1425) [VCH iii 175]. During the
minority of the last Walter Heslerton, after 1349, the manor was in
the possession of Thomas Ughtred, Martin of Skerne and Walter de
Cotes. But there's no mention of the junior Percys or Heslertons in
the VCH accounts of the manors we are interested in - Hundberton or
Wilberfoss.

Chris Phillips



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