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From: Cristopher Nash <c@windsong.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Eleanor de Vitre
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 02:25:19 +0100
References: <3f.ff6f161.2a8c312f@aol.com><044501c24401$cebdda80$de00a8c0@mshome.net><a05100301b981619dbbf1@[10.0.1.3]><04e801c244ab$a2155a80$de00a8c0@mshome.net>
In-Reply-To: <04e801c244ab$a2155a80$de00a8c0@mshome.net>


Thanks a lot to Rosie and Adrian for these on the generation of
Robert III de Vitré - which actually more-or-less match Turton's
version (and which I'd set aside long ago largely because he was the
main one to hold to it at the time! Sic semper snobbery.).

Rosie Bevan wrote --

>The descent of property in Burton Latimer, Northants. indicates a descent
>from Alan de Dinant/Dinan to Eleanor de Vitre.
>
>VCH Northants. v.3 p. 181
>"The two-thirds of the township of Burton which in the 13th century were
>assigned to the successors of Alan de Dinant became known as the manor of
>Burton by Thingden or Burton Plessy or Placy. Alan, the grantee of Henry I,
>was succeeded as tenant at will in the whole of Burton by Roland de Dinant,
>who was holding it in 1166 and 1173 [Red Bk of Exch. (Rolls ser.), 331-2;
>Great Roll of the Pipe (Pipe Roll Soc.), xi, 119, xii, 54, xxi, p.53].
>Before 1190, it had passed to his nephew and heir Alan, the son of his
>sister Emma and Robert de Vitry [Cott. MS (BM), Domit. A 8, fol.87; Pipe
>Roll Soc. (new ser.) i, p.30 ; Mag. Rot. Scacc. Norm. (Soc. of Antiq.), ii,
>p.xlvii, note O]. He seems to have died shortly and Burton passed to his
>mother and Robert de Vitry, but before 1196 it escheated to the King. [Pipe
>R 8 Ric I m.17]. Burton passed to Thomas Malmains, the husband of Joan, a
>grand daughter of Emma de Vitry, and one of the daughters of Eleanor de
>Vitry by her second husband Gilbert de Tellieres. [Mag. Rot. Scacc. Norm.
>(Soc. of Antiq.), ii, p.xlvi, note O]. Malemains went to Germany in 1209,
>and apparently during his absence, King John gave Burton to Fulk de
>Cantilupe to hold at will. Malemains on his return joined the king's party,
>and recovered the manor of Burton in 1216 as part of his wife's inheritance
>[Rot. Litt. Pat (Rec. Com.), i.284]. In 1217 it was again granted to
>Cantilupe, but presumably he obtained other compensation, since on the death
>of Thomas Malmains, it was granted during pleasure in 1219 to his widow
>Joan. She died in 1221 and the custody of her lands and heir was granted to
>William Longsword, Earl of Salisbury and his wife Ela, her half-sister."

Adrian Channing wrote --

>my notes, based on old messages to Gen-Med, has another generation,
>viz: Robert de Vitre m Emme de la Guerche > Robert m Emma d of Alan
>de Dinan > Allianor/Eleanor m3 Wm earl of Salisbury.
>
>DD (p 433) under Alan de Dinan, left a daughter Emma wife of Alan de Vitre

Yes - this last was the kind of thing in DD that made me wonder
(since it doesn't really help a lot to have Emma da. of Alan de
Dinant and supposed wife of Robert de Vitré marrying Alan de Vitré).
I wonder if Chris might like to scan it for signs of another
_Domesday Descendants_ slip? It could be added to an examination of
DD's giving two death dates for what seems to be the same Geoffrey I
de Dinan, viz. 1127 (p. 433, sub 'Alan de Dinan'), the other 1123 (p.
434, sub 'Oliver de Dinan').

Cheers again,

Cris


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