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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2002-09 > 1031733238


From: royalynx <>
Subject: Re: Danish Haralds in 9th century Frisia
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 01:33:58 -0700
References: <03e401c257ba$1fd0b3e0$95e979a5@Stewart> <00dd01c25825$675a4a80$1a690044@tu.ok.cox.net> <3D7E8102.9040603@cox.net> <000b01c2595d$99629300$1a690044@tu.ok.cox.net>


Note interspersed comments below.


Phil Moody wrote:

>Jack Brown wrote:
>
>>In order that credit may be given where credit is due, permit me to
>>mention that Mr. Moody is quite right when he mentions in this
>>message that he had sent me a copy of this article by Professor
>>Sawyer. Let me assure everyone on the list that Stewart Baldwin
>>was unaware of my having received this from Mr. Moody and, in
>>fact, I had forgotten it myself and have had to search back through
>>my records to find that he not only sent me this article but also
>>sent me an article by the late Dr. Nora Chadwick which, un-
>>fortunately I am unable to locate at the moment.
>>
>
>PLM: Thank you for clearing this up, Jack! If you continue to have
>difficulty locating Mrs. H. M. Chadwick's essay; I will gladly send it
>again.
>
You are right, Phil, the late Dr. Nora Chadwick, is also known as Mrs.
H. Munro Chadwick which, I think only serves to detract from the fact
that she was an excellent historian in her own right, first as Dr. Nora
Kershaw,
and only much later, as Mrs. H. Munro Chadwick. And thank you for
offering
to send another copy of her article. However, although I have also
forgotten
the title of the article, I seem to recall that it wasn't one I really
needed at the
time just as I didn't seem to need the Sawyer article at the time

>
>
>>In spite of what Mr. Moody might think, the copy of the article I
>>furnished Professor Baldwin was one I had requested and received
>>from the publisher of the book in which the article appeared, and
>>which they happily supplied me free of charge inasmuch as the
>>book was out of print and they were unable to sell me a copy.
>>
>
>PLM: I have no reason to doubt you, Jack; so please accept my apologies for
>coming to a hasty conclusion. However, I hope you can appreciate my
>perspective. I had already sent you a perfectly legible scan; so how was I
>to conclude that you forgot that I even sent the essay to you, and yet you
>were still able to recall the publisher and title of the essay, and then go
>and order an article you already had? I guess the truth is stranger than
>fiction - occasionally:-)
>
Your comment is known as "I hear you lying, Jack, but I'll couch my
written comments to not appear to be accusatory" And the simplest way
for me to assist you in understanding some of the basics of doing research,
is to suggest to you to simply go to the URL Dr. Baldwin included in the
informative amendment to his article (which he kindly shared with the group)
and you will arrive forthwith at one of the articles he mentioned -- the one
by Kenneth Cutler, now emeritus professor of History at Purdue
University. When you reach the point where Professor Cutler (he and I
corresponded by email but I don't know him; hence my preference for
referring him by his academic title) where the text reads,
"Interpretation of these
sources by scholars such as Ferdinand Lot,[ 14
<http://php.iupui.edu/%7Ekcutler/exiles.html#14>; ] W. C. Braat,[ 15
<http://php.iupui.edu/%7Ekcutler/exiles.html#15>; ]
Peter Sawyer,[ 16 <http://php.iupui.edu/%7Ekcutler/exiles.html#16>; ] and
K. L. Maund [ 17 <http://php.iupui.edu/%7Ekcutler/exiles.html#17>; ] to
name a few,[ 18 <http://php.iupui.edu/%7Ekcutler/exiles.html#18>; ]and
you then simply arrow down to footnote number 16, which I have copied and
pasted in here:

[16] "Kings and Royal Power," Fra Stamme til Stat i Danmark 2:
Hovdinsesamfund
og Kongemagt, edited P. Mortensen and B. Rasmussen (Højbjerg and Århus,
1991),
p 282-288. [ return <http://php.iupui.edu/%7Ekcutler/exiles.html#16a>; ]

And once one decides one really has need for the article (as I felt I had
need for it), I then accessed the catalog at the Library of Congress)
and it was
there that I discovered the name of the publisher. And you see I had
already
received it by snail mail prior to calling the Cutler article URL to the
attention
of Professor Baldwin as I am aware that he is interested in anything
that might
shed some light on these early kings of the Danes.


And this brings me to another point that will be of interest to you.
In one of
your messages a few nights ago you were inquiring about the meaning of BAR
which published Eric Christiansen's translation of Books X through XVI of
the works of Saxo Grammaticus.

The BAR stands for "British Archaeological Review" and here is a library
catalogue entry for this particular work you seek.

Name: Saxo, Grammaticus, d. ca. 1204.
Main Title: Danorum regum heroumque historia : books x-xvi :
the text of the first edition with translation and commentary in three
volumes /
Saxo Grammaticus ; [translation and commentary by] Eric Christiansen.
Uniform Title: [Gesta Danorum. Liber 10-16. English & Latin]
Published/
Created: Oxford, England : B.A.R., 1980-
Related Names:Christiansen, Eric, 1937-
Related Titles: Saxo Grammaticus, Danorum regum heroumque historia.
Saxo Grammaticus, books x-xvi.
Description: v. <1 > : maps, geneal. tables ; 30 cm.
ISBN: 0860540979 (pbk. : v. l)
Incomplete Contents: v. 1. Books x, xi, xii, and xiii.
Notes: Text in English and Latin; English commentary.
Title on cover of v. 1: Saxo Grammaticus, books x-xvi.
includes bibliographical references.
Subjects: Folklore--Scandinavia.
Series: BAR international series ; 84, etc.
Variant Series: BAR international series ; 84-
LC Classif.: DL147 .S2513 1980
Dewey Class #.: 948.9/01 19


However, I will tell you that I feel confident that the English
translation you will appreciate even more is in Saxo Grammaticus,
The History of the Danes Books I-IX, by Hilda Ellis Davidson,
as translated by Peter Fisher, and is readily available through most
good booksellers, both here and abroad, being reasonably priced as well.


Best wishes,


Jack Brown



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