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From: (Douglas Richardson)
Subject: Re: Champernownes the early generations: outstanding questions
Date: 1 Oct 2002 13:45:12 -0700
References: <20020926101256.84191.qmail@web11703.mail.yahoo.com> <amvo88$830$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk>


Dear Chris ~

I don't know of any contemporary evidence that Mabel, wife of Griffith
ap Ivor Bach, was a daughter of an Earl of Gloucester. I descend from
Mabel several times through the colonial immigrant, Griffith Bowen,
Gent., of Roxbury, Massachusetts and his wife, Margaret Fleming.

I believe the only sources for this affiliation are old Welsh
pedigrees. I find such pedigrees interesting to read, but they
usually have various problems associated with them. As a general
rule, the Welsh pedigrees are only as good as what you can verify
against the original records. In this case, as far as I know, the
contemporary records are silent about Mabel's parentage.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

E-mail:

"Chris Phillips" <> wrote in message news:<amvo88$830$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk>...
> mark harry wrote:
> > What is the source for the claim that Mabel married William ap Ivor Bach ?
>
>
> I tried to look into this a little while ago as a small addition to the
> Complete Peerage.
>
> Keats-Rohan (Domesday Descendants, p.232) says that Robert earl of
> Gloucester had an illegitimate daughter Mabel, married to Griffith ap Ivor
> Bach, citing Earldom of Gloucester Charters, ed. Robert Patterson, no 120
> and note (1973).
>
> That charter appears to be just a confirmation c.1150-3 by earl William, of
> a grant by Griffin Fitz Ivor to Margam Abbey. The note says the same as
> Keats-Rohan, and refers to G.T. and G.L. Clark, Cartae et Munimenta quae ad
> Dominum de Glamorgancia pertinent, vol.1, 149n (2nd edn, 1910).
>
> Unfortunately the library I was in had only the 1885 edition of this work,
> and I couldn't find a reference to Mabel in that.
>
> Chris Phillips

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