GEN-MEDIEVAL-L Archives

Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2002-12 > 1039203868


From: (Douglas Richardson)
Subject: Countess Ida, mother of William Longespee, Earl of Salisbury
Date: 6 Dec 2002 11:44:28 -0800


Dear Newsgroup ~

The following explantory note is what presently appears in the draft
of the manuscript of the forthcoming book, Plantagenet Ancestry,
regarding Countess Ida, mother of William Longespee, Earl of
Salisbury. Comments are invited.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

- - - - - - - - - - -
NOTE: William Longespée has long been thought to have been the
illegitimate child of Henry II, King of England, by his mistress,
Rosamond Clifford. However, new evidence has surfaced in recent years
which indicates William was actually the son of King Henry II by
another of his mistresses, a certain Ida, afterwards the wife of Roger
Bigod (died 1221), 4th Earl of Norfolk, a noted Magna Carta baron.
For the Bigod family, see C.P. 9 (1936): 586-589 (sub Norfolk); A.H.
Thompson ed. Liber Vitae Ecclesiae Dunelmenis (Surtees Soc., vol. 136)
(1928). For conclusive evidence that William Longespée was the son of
Countess Ida, see V.C.M. London Cartulary of Bradenstoke Priory
(Wiltshire Rec. Soc., vol. 35) (1979): 143,188, which includes two
charters in which William Longespée specifically names his mother,
Countess Ida. Moreover, among the prisoners captured at the battle of
Bouvines in Flanders in 1214 was a Ralph Bigod, who contemporary
records specifically call "brother" [i.e., half-brother] of William
Longespée, Earl of Salisbury [see J.W. Baldwin ed. Les Registres de
Philippe Augustus (1992), miscellanea no. 13]. As for the identity of
Countess Ida, in the July 1856 issue of the New England Register,
William Chauncy Fowler stated that Earl Roger Bigod had two wives,
"Ida de Thouy [Tony] and Isabella de Warren" [see NEHGR, 10 (1856):
262]. If Mr. Fowler correctly identified Countess Ida's maiden name
as Tony, it seems likely that she was a daughter of Roger de Tony
(died 1157/62), Baron of Flamstead, co. Hertford, by his wife, Ida,
daughter of Baldwin III, Count of Hainault. For supporting evidence
of Countess Ida's possible Tony identity, it may be noted that William
Longespée and his descendants had a long standing association with the
family of Roger de Akeny, of Garsington, co. Oxford, which Roger was a
younger son of Roger de Tony (died 1157/62), Baron of Flamstead, co.
Hertford. For Roger de Akeny's place in the Tony family pedigree, see
C.P. 14 (1998): 614; L.C. Loyd Origins of Some Anglo-Norman Families
(1951), pg. 2; VCH Oxford 5 (1957): 138; C. Harper-Bill Dodnash Priory
Charters (1998), pp. 34-37, 39-40,72-73; Family History 18 (1997):
47-64; 19 (1998): 125-129; see also C.P. 8 (1932): chart following pg.
464. Specifically, Dodnash Priory Charters (1998), pg. 78, includes a
charter issued by Roger de Akeny, in which he sealed with a maunch,
which is the same heraldic device employed by the Tony family on their
arms. While familial associations and onomastic evidence is
suggestive that William Longespee's mother, Countess Ida, was a member
of the Tony family, direct evidence is still lacking to confirm her
parentage. Special thanks go to Rosie Bevan, Ray Phair, and Paul C.
Reed, all of whom made material contributions to this discussion.

This thread: