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From: "Leo van de Pas" <>
Subject: Re: Countess Ida, mother of William Longespee, Earl of Salisbury
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:53:52 +1100
References: <5cf47a19.0212061144.48a627c0@posting.google.com>


See below :

----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Richardson" <>
To: <>
Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 6:44 AM
Subject: Countess Ida, mother of William Longespee, Earl of Salisbury


> Dear Newsgroup ~
>
> The following explantory note is what presently appears in the draft
> of the manuscript of the forthcoming book, Plantagenet Ancestry,
> regarding Countess Ida, mother of William Longespee, Earl of
> Salisbury. Comments are invited.
>
> Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
>
> - - - - - - - - - - -
> NOTE: William Longespée has long been thought to have been the
> illegitimate child of Henry II, King of England, by his mistress,
> Rosamond Clifford. However, new evidence has surfaced in recent years
> which indicates William was actually the son of King Henry II by
> another of his mistresses, a certain Ida, afterwards the wife of Roger
> Bigod (died 1221), 4th Earl of Norfolk, a noted Magna Carta baron.
> For the Bigod family, see C.P. 9 (1936): 586-589 (sub Norfolk);

Dear Douglas,
Can you explain why you call Roger Bigod---4th Earl of Norfolk?
There were two Earls of Norfolk, father and son. whose line have nothing to
do with the Bigod family. Hugh Bigod (Roger's father) was CREATED (a new
creation, nothing to do with the previous Earls of Norfolk) Earl of Norfolk
in December 1140 or January 1141. In my humble opinion, Hugh should be
called 1st Earl of Norfolk, and Roger Bigod 2nd Earl of Norfolk.
Best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia.



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