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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2002-12 > 1039378013


From: "Leo van de Pas" <>
Subject: Fw: Countess Ida, mother of William Longespee, Earl of Salisbury
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 19:01:24 +1100


Dear Douglas,
Thank you for your interesting posting. Actually I feel you are looking at
it correctly but from the wrong angle. William the Lion was a second cousin
(our counting) of Henry II of England, the father of William Longespee,
which might be a closer link than via the Tony family.
Best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Douglas Richardson" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 2:56 AM
> Subject: Re: Countess Ida, mother of William Longespee, Earl of Salisbury
>
>
> > Dear John ~
> >
> > Thank you for your good post. Actually I do have an idea of something
> > which may give another indication of Countess Ida's identity.
> >
> > As I recall, Countess Ida's son, William Longespee, was requested to
> > escort William the Lion, King of Scotland, to a meeting with King
> > John. I suspect this escort consisted of men who were blood related
> > to William the Lion through his English ancestry. If William
> > Longespee's mother was a Tony, he would be blood related to William
> > the Lion, as both the Tony family and the Scottish royal family
> > descended from Countess Judith, niece of William the Conqueror. The
> > escort obviously had to be people of trustworthiness to guarantee the
> > safefy of the Scottish king. Who better than the Scottish king's own
> > blood kinsmen to form such an escort?
> >
> > As such, it seems a good avenue to locate the list of men who were
> > asked to escort William the Lion to meet with King John. As I recall,
> > William the Lion had two such meetings. It probably wouldn't be a bad
> > idea to get both lists. Perhaps someone with some time on their hands
> > can volunteer to find these lists.
> >
> > If Countess Ida were a Tony, it would explain not only why her son,
> > William Longespee, was chosen to escort William the Lion, but also why
> > she and her husband, Roger Bigod, and her son, William Longespee,
> > appear in the early medieval source, Liber Vitae Ecclesiae
> > Dunelmensis. As a Tony she would have been blood related to the
> > Scottish king. The monks in this source seem to have been interested
> > in families that had links to the Scottish royal family, such as
> > Duncan, Earl of Fife, and his wife, Ada. Families with English royal
> > connections seem to have been overlooked.
> >
> > Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
> >
> > E-mail:
> >
> >
> > wrote in message news:<>...
> > > Friday, 6 December, 2002
> > >
> > >
> > > Dear Douglas,
> > >
> > > Thank you for an interesting post, and insight into another
section
> of
> > > the forthcoming Plantagenet Ancestry. Certainly the positive
> identification
> > > of 'Countess Ida', mother of William Longespee, as being afterwards
wife
> of
> > > Roger le Bigod, Earl of Norfolk was one of the more noteworthy
features
> of
> > > 2002 on SGM.
> > >
> > > It would be a significant additional breakthrough if the parentage
> of
> > > 'Countess Ida' could be confirmed. Discussion of her identification
as
> a
> > > member of the Tosny or Tony family of Flamstead, co. Herts. seems to
be
> the
> > > most likely avenue for success, but as you know has yet to yield
> positive
> > > proof to date. I would be interested to know if you may have found
any
> > > further documentation concerning this subject.
> > >
> > > Best regards, and good luck with your many projects.
> > >
> > >
> > > John *
> > >
> > >
> > > * John P. Ravilious
> >
>


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