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From: "Vickie Elam White" <>
Subject: Re: Re-dating William Longespee's Birth
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 13:54:36 -0500
References: <6a.2b8fa3a5.2b48df86@aol.com> <5cf47a19.0301050902.21a424bd@posting.google.com>


Douglas Richardson wrote --

>There is evidence to show that Ela Longespee was Eleanor de Vitre's
>daughter. We know that Eleanor de Vitre was granted the manor of
>Cooling, Suffolk as her maritagium by her father.

Her father Robert de VITRE died in 1173, correct? This might
support there being two Eleanors, one who married William
FITZPATRICK, Earl of Salisbury, before 1173 and one who
married William PAYNEL by Nov 1177. But can you cite your
sources for this maritagium and explain a bit further?

>Later, during the
>uproar which followed the loss of Normandy, Eleanor de Vitre lost
>custody of Cooling, Suffolk. Some years later, I show that Ela
>Longespee granted all rights to her lands in Cooling, Suffolk to her
>younger son, Nicholas Longespee. While not commonly known,
>Eleanor de Vitre also had female issue by her marriages to Gilbert de
>Tillieres and Nicholas de Malesmains. As such, Countess Ela Longespee
>would have been co-heiress to her mother, Eleanor de Vitre. I assume
>Countess Ela got her rights to property in Cooling, Suffolk as
>co-heiress to Eleanor de Vitre.

It could be that Ela acquired Cooling in some other way, say as
a step-daughter of Eleanor's. Since the land had been taken away,
doesn't that rather negate (or at least modify) the usual route of
inheritance? Cooling could have gone to anyone, even if not a
relative. Since you freely admit here that your are assuming this
route, then more research would be needed.


Vickie Elam White



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