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From: (Douglas Richardson)
Subject: Re: Re-dating William Longespee's Birth
Date: 5 Jan 2003 21:42:41 -0800
References: <71.2b5e720b.2b4a176e@aol.com>


wrote in message news:<>...
> Doug,
>
> I will answer simply that
>

> Something isn't totaling up, indeed. You are presenting ONLY what you think
> will challenge my position. And then you state <<William Longespee was the
> grandson of a couple married prior to 1135?>> So what? >
> Paul

Dear Newsgroup ~

Paul's cavalier attitude of "so what" in his post above obscures the
collapse of his theory that he trumpetted here on the newsgroup in
2000 and again in 2002, as well as in his recent article in The
American Genealogist. In these posts and in his article, he stated
that he believed that Countess Ida Bigod was the daughter of Roger de
Tony (born about 1104), by his wife, Ida of Hainault, which couple are
known to have been married in the reign of King Henry I (died 1135).
When his theory collapses due to the chronological evidence he
suppressed, he simply says "so what."

When you make a mistake, Paul, you're supposed to admit it. Time to
fess up. Don't beat a dead horse - it's cruelty to animals and to
all of us here on the newsgroup. Cut your losses and move on. We
all make mistakes.

Next issue is to determine if William Longespee's wife, Ela, was born
about 1191 as commonly thought to be the case, or prior to 1184. Does
anyone know of any evidence that Ela's mother, Eleanor de Vitre, was
granted dower as widow of William, Earl of Salisbury? If Ela's
mother, Eleanor, was Earl William's widow that would seem to preclude
a birth of Ela prior to 1190. However, if an incorrect ordering of
Eleanor de Vitre's marriages has taken place, then a re-arrangement of
the chronology of this family will have to be made. As a descendant
of the Longespee family, I'm interested to see how this turns out.
Was Ela really six when she was married to William Longespee? If so,
that would seem to violate church law.

There is helpful material on Eleanor de Vitre in the book, Loss of
Normandy, by F.M. Powicke. If anyone has access to this book, I'd
appreciate it if they could post the pertinent parts of the book here
on the newsgroup for us to examine. My copy of this information is
buried in storage at the moment. Powicke shows that Eleanor de Vitre
had issue by her other marriages which is not commonly known.
Benjamin Poindexter, immigrant to Virginia, descends from one of
Eleanor's other marriages.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

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