GEN-MEDIEVAL-L ArchivesArchiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2003-01 > 1041855348
Subject: Re: Re-dating William Longespee's Birth
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 07:15:48 EST
Just to follow up on a speculative observation,
Yolande of Guelders, wife of Baldwin III, was b. 1089-90 (not born before,
but possibly later), and would be 22-23 or younger in 1112. Baldwin was her
eldest son, and Gerhard the second, but I am not certain of the birth order
of the daughters. And not all children survive birth in this period, so more
children might have been born who did not survive.
If Yolande's daughter Ida of Hainault were born in 1112, she would be age 40
in 1152. We know she had at least four sons that survived to adulthood, but
the number of daughters is not certainly known (my mother still had three of
eight children to give birth to when she was 40).
If Ida of Hainault had a daughter named Ida born 1152-3, she would be 45 in
1197-8. That would generally match what I estimate to be the end range for
the period Countess Ida gave birth to the Bigod children.
I do not see an impossible situation here (as claimed by someone else). In
large families it is not unusual for the eldest child to already be having
children at the same time the youngest child was born. My mother was one of
nine, and my paternal grandmother one of ten.
But I am still troubled by the lack of any known maritagium brought by Ida in
marriage to the Earl of Norfolk. The Toeni family doled out important manors
as marriage portions. Even if Countess Ida were daughter of Margaret de
Beaumont (assuming the Toeni connection is valid), marriage to such an
important husband should have brought an important holding (unless Ida were
actually from France or the Low Lands, or of more humble origins, made
desirable because of her history with the King)