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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2003-02 > 1045066519


From: Kay Allen AG <>
Subject: Re: Comments on Internet Genealogy Was Re: VAUX
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 08:16:04 -0800
References: <jPe2a.11805$1q2.1135111@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net><004d01c2d297$31a11490$66f93644@TARHEEL>


Experts write their material in scholarly journals or in books. In this case,
the expert was G. Andrews Moriarty. He wrote rather voluminously on the Vaux of
Harrowden in _Miscellanea Genealogica et Heraldica_, 5th Series,vol. 4 and vol.
5 . This periodical is available, I believe on film through the Family History
Center system of the LDS Church.

But you need to learn about how to find these articles. PERSI and Genealogical
Periodical
Annual Index are two ways to find current US publications. PERSI in on CD and
available from Ancestry.com.

But many of these articles are early 20th century and earlier. You need to
become acquainted with George Marshall, John B. Whitmore, and Geoffrey Barrow.
Mr. Marshall
wrote a Genealogist's Guide, in which he mentioned periodicals in which a
surname is mentioned for three generations. He covers the period up to 1903.

An example, not actual, would be VAUX Harl Soc., vii, 27; Herald & Gen. iv,
515; Gen. NS xiii, 174. The introduction would give what the abbreviations
stand for. Many of the periodicals have been filmed and are available through
the Family History Center system.
The book itself is available in reprint through Genealogical Publishing Co.,
Inc. of Baltimore.

John B. Whitmore wote the continuation which goes up to about 1950ish. This is
available on microform through the FHC.

Geoffrey Barrow did the continuation up through 1975. It is available on
microfiche.

Then there is the International Medieval Bibliography or International Medieval
Bibliographic Index, which started in 1967 and is published in semi-annual
volumes, available at good universities. It even has a special section devoted
to Genealogy and Prosopography. But one would not wish to limit one's self to
this section only.

With these materials, you can see what has been published and try not to
reinvent the wheel. However, keep in mind that nothing is set in concrete. The
list has torn several previously published articles to shreds, or, at least.
mauled them a bit. :-)

Kay Allen AG

Donna wrote:

> All I want is to not reinvent the wheel. I'm not writing a book. I'm not
> proving new lines. I just want to make sure the lines out there in
> manuscripts, books and internet are correct. When lines are given ( like
> you said) sources are not usually noted. When the "experts" find lineages
> where do they put them??
> Reading TAG is hard because "The Experts" just says this surname to that
> surname with no real detailed data. Then they give a list of sources at the
> end. What I expect from the experts is when they give a marriage to say
> what source it came from right there. What is the source that connects the
> next generation?
>
> What I'm wanting from this group is to know what books to look for. I
> don't want anyone to do the research for me. I just want someone to say
> such and such book contains the Vaux family and its very good or very lousy
> or So in So has done this line and its located in this book.....
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sutliff" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 5:29 PM
> Subject: Comments on Internet Genealogy Was Re: VAUX
>
> > Donna,
> >
> > Please forgive my using your post for commenting about a number of issues
> in
> > play here with this and your other post and those from some others. My
> > comments are not meant to be disrespectful of you in any measure (as I
> > understand you were quoting others' work and not your own), but to point
> to
> > a few clues as to what to look for when you come across this kind of data
> on
> > the internet:
> >
> > 1) Whenever you find an ancestry such as the two below that have given
> > birthdates to everyone, approximate or otherwise, it is almost certainly
> > compiled by an amateur who has arbitrarily assigned guesstimated
> birthdates
> > which are not based on any form of scholarship. Documentation is
> everything
> > in genealogy and without it anything must be considered immediately
> suspect.
> >
> > 2) Exact death dates have a similar problem. These may be based reliably
> on
> > a death in battle or from an Inquisition Post Mortem. However, one wonders
> > if some of these things are simply pulled out of the air. For example,
> > Oliver de Vaux shown in both alleged pedigrees below died between April
> > 1238 and March 1241 (Sanders:41).
> >
> > 3) Whenever someone calls a woman "Miss" so and so in a pedigree as
> someone
> > did in your other post, this is also usually indicative of an amateur
> > effort. Scholars generally use N. N. when a name is unknown. This is for
> > the Latin, Nomen Nescio.
> >
> > 4) Any medieval pedigree which contains individuals with middle names (as
> > below) is immediately suspect. Middle names are a fairly recent invention.
> > They were virtually unknown before the Stuarts came to the throne in the
> > 17th century and not used by the masses until a much later date. Medieval
> > pedigrees containing individuals with middle names are often indicative of
> > two possibly distinct individuals who have been merged in order to obtain
> a
> > desired result. Middle names are in such common use these days, that
> people
> > still try to force them on those of us who do not have them and some
> > incorrectly assume that they have always been used.
> >
> > 5) Applying birth locations to all individuals is also problematic.
> > Generally it is best to identify someone "of" a location as in the
> > properties owned by the individual as say "of Pentney, Norfolk as for
> > Oliver.
> >
> > 6) The same holds true for death locations. It is generally only wise to
> > list what you have found in documentation, not what is suspected or
> assumed.
> >
> > 7) Although genealogy can be done on the internet as a hobby, anyone with
> > any aspirations for creating reliable and scholarly work simply must use
> > libraries. There is just too much garbage on the internet; most of them
> are
> > vanity projects trying to link to famous people in order to validate
> > themselves or their agenda. Too many contain ancestries of forced answers
> of
> > equating two individuals of the same name without foundation. Persons
> > interested in wanting to know who their families really were rather than
> who
> > they want them to be or by simply downloading someone else's rubbish, must
> > use libraries. There are no shortcuts to the integrity of genealogical
> > research. The web page FAQ for Gen-Medieval discusses sources and how to
> use
> > them.
> >
> > In no way am I trying to discourage you or anyone else in genealogical
> > research. My point is trying to educate the lurkers here as to how to
> > improve the quality of their work and what to realistically expect by
> posts
> > to this forum. The experts here can be very demanding and rightfully so.
> We
> > are asking them to use their time to look up solutions for our problems
> and
> > they have the right to expect some effort from us.
> >
> > Again my apologies for using your post to make my comments, but just have
> > seen too many similar posts of late not to speak up and hopefully others
> > will step forward to help educate us with their thoughts.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Henry Sutliff
> >
> > P. S. As your other post refers to Alice Freeman Thompson Parke,
> perchance
> > if you descend from the Parke family, I would caution you to be careful of
> > some of the British ancestries published in The Parke Society newsletters
> as
> > there are many errors contained therein. I believe there is an effort to
> > correct some of the past mistakes, but wanted you to know that whole lines
> > have been dropped in this ancestry if this is yours.
> >
> >
> >
> > "Donna" <> wrote in message
> > news:002401c2d1d3$4b451b40$...
> > > I need help with the Vaux line
> > > according to http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/9004/Vaux.html
> > > a.. Harold Vaux (1065- )
> > > a.. Robert Vaux (1099- )
> > > a.. William Vaux (1117- )
> > > a.. Robert Vaux (1140- )
> > > a.. Oliver Vaux (1170-1244)
> > > a.. Roger Vaux (1200-1244)
> > > a.. Nicholas Vaux (1226-1275)
> > > a.. Robert Vaux (1254-1305)
> > > a.. Elias Vaux (1284-1330)
> > > a.. William Vaux (1324-1373)
> > > a.. William Vaux (1345-1401)
> > > a.. William Thomas Vaux (1370-1405)
> > > a.. Eleanor Vaux md Thomas Gifford
> > >
> > >
> > > but according to
> > >
> >
> http://216.239.53.100/search?q=cache:6ltXzhkgbckC:www.stanford.edu/~jerfox/F
> > > oxTree.pdf+eleanor+vaux+thomas+gifford&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
> > >
> > > there are some differences.
> > > a.. Harold Vaux (1010- )
> > > a.. Robert Vaux (1030- )
> > > a.. Robert Vaux (1055- )
> > > a.. William Vaux (1120- )
> > > a.. Robert Vaux (1140-)
> > > a.. Oliver Vaux (1170-)
> > > a.. Roger Vaux (1230-)
> > > a.. Elias Vaux (1270-)
> > > a.. William Vaux (1300-1373)
> > > a.. William Vaux (1330-)
> > > a.. William Thomas Vaux (1365-1405)
> > > a.. Eleanor Vaux (1408-1469) md Thomas Gifford
> > >
> >
> http://www.genealogy.com/users/h/a/l/Scott-P-Hall/FILE/0002text.txt?Welcome=
> > > 1044970535
> > > has this same line also except he stops at Robert (de Vallibus/Vaux) he
> > > doesn't take it up to Harold
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ______________________________
> >

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