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From: "Todd A. Farmerie" <>
Subject: Re: Adelaide, sister or half-sister to William I
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 18:32:22 -0700
References: <b3oqu1$jc8$1@venus.btinternet.com> <b3vpeo$k3b$1@knossos.btinternet.com> <GoU8a.188827$K71.111037@news1.central.cox.net> <3E642102.1050901@interfold.com> <mFn9a.203006$K71.38346@news1.central.cox.net> <3E66275A.3010008@interfold.com> <6Pz9a.208652$K71.70322@news1.central.cox.net>


Phil Moody wrote:
> For Adelais to be the root of all these names, then one is
> supposing that the names are Frankish in origin, and I find this to be a
> very narrow perspective.

Considering that a good number (probably the majority) of the
names used by the Norman nobility were Frankish/Germanic, what is
so narrow about it? Richard, William, Robert, Henry, Mathilda,
etc. There are only rare exceptions - some Norman (Gundred,
Papia/Poppa), some of other origin (Judith) but with distinct
patterns of transmission (tracing all the way back to the Welf),
but what naming tradition would you expect Robert to use for a
daughter? Certainly not Anglo-Saxon.

> I am not an etymologist, but I intuitively feel
> that the conclusion is flawed concerning the derivations of these names; so
> I still harbor my doubts.

Intuition can be a helpful tool, but can also lead someone to
reject what is well documented because of vague disfavorable
feelings.

> Putting aside the linguistic arguements, I find this post by John Ravilious
> interesting:
>
> ----------------
[snips]
> 1.1b Adelaide of Normandy* (See above)
> - --------------------------------------
>
> Spouse: Enguerrand II of Ponthieu [1st husband]

> Children: Adelais
>
> Other Spouses Lambert of Lens, Eudes of Champagne
>
> 1.1b.1 Adelais of Ponthieu
> - --------------------------------------
>
> identified by Douglas Richardson as Adelaide/Adeliz, of Ponthieu[3]
>
> [called Adela/Adelaide de Gournay in other sources; no documentation]
>
> Spouse: Ives de Beaumont-sur-Oise

> PLM: Now according this this data, William I's sister Adelaide had three
> children, and one was named Adelais. So, is it possible that Robert of
> Torigni may have confused Adelaide's daughter "Adelais" with her mother?

Which conveniently ignores the comment in this very source that
this Adelais is called Adelaide/Adeliz by Douglas Richardson, and
Adela/Adelaide by other sources. Thus even here, Adelais, Adele
and Adelaide are the same name, so where is the confusion?

taf

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