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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2003-04 > 1051217438


From: Deborah <>
Subject: TAILLEBOIS-BEAUCHAMP-Grentesmaisnil
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 14:50:44 -0600 (MDT)


Dear Listmembers:

I have been keeping in touch with reading your postings for the past five
years, although I haven't contributed to the list. So please excuse me for
butting in to respond to a listmember query from January 2003. I've recently
stumbled on some new information for Ivo de Taillebois, who I believe is my
ancestor of my Thornsborough paternal line, from various internet sites. I
haven't seen this information mentioned in the list archives, so would like
to submit it for your learned comments in response to a list member's query
from January 2003 which states "on p. 263 Keats-Rohan says that Hugh de
Grentesmaisnil disputed Ralph Taillebois's inheritance with Hugh de
Beauchamp, Ralph's son-in-law and principle heir, and the husband of Ralph's
niece, Ranulf, brother of Ilger."

If this inheritance descends from Lucy, wife of Ivo Taillebois, First Baron
of Kendal and Earl of Holland in Lincolnshire, born about 1045 who died 1095
in Kendal, I've read in several places that the inheritance passed through
Lucy's descendants after Ivo's death, since she was the heiress of Turold
through whom Ivo acquired ownership with his marriage to her (Lucy aka
Baroness Spaulding).This does not seem to be disputed, at least regarding
Spaulding Priory and their gift of the Kendal Church.

The information I've recently seen on various internet sites:

Ives Taillebois who died 1095 in Kendal, Cumbria was the son of Rolf
Taillebois and Azeline of Anjous who born about 1020. Ives was the brother
of Matilda Taillebois born about 1050 in Anjou who married Hugh de Beauchamp.

Another site gives that Edward Raleigh born about 1040 in Normandy married
Adeliza Matilda Taillebois born 1044, daughter of Rolf Taillebois born 1014
in France and his first wife. Rolf's second wife was Azeline of Anjou and
their child Peganaus de Beauchamp born 1070 in Hereford, Buckshire, England
died in 1157.

In Fulk Nerra, the Neo-Roman Consul, 987-1040 a political biography of the
Angevin County by Bernard S. Bachrach, U of Cal Press, it states that in
1014 Fulk Nerra made Renaud, son of Ivo, the Catellan of Chateau-Gontier
Castella. It says that Ranaud was likely related to the Lords of Belleme
whose lands were 60 kilometers northeast of Le Mans on the Norman frontier.
It says Ivo was a leitnames of the Belleme family. It also says that
Hildeburgis the wife of Haimo (fidelis of Fulk Nerra) and sister of William
had a brother named Ivo, this latter Ivo would have been the correct age to
father Renaud. Also that "the name Ivo is not found in the Namenguter of the
Angevin aristocracy during this period." SEginfredus of Beleme who Geoffrey
gave the bishopric of Le Mans, had a successor Avesgaud who was the brother
of William of Belleme and the son of Ivo of Belleme and the brother-in-law
of Haimo of the Chateau-du-Loir whose son Gervais would follow his maternal
uncle to the bishopric of Le Mans. I found on the internet another brief
mention of "Reynold, son of Ivo" who may be the same person as Renaud of
this paragraph.

Another site says Ivo Taillebois (Ivor Woodcutter) was from Caen in Normandy
aka Ivo FitzRichard de Roumare Taillebois born 1036 in Yorkshire died 1094
in Kendal. I'm puzzled that the next sentence is "the family adopted the
name and became Earls of Chester". Except Lucia (I think daughter of Ivo,
not his wife Lucy)also married Ranulph de Briquessart Le Meschin, Earl of
Chester who died Jan 1128/29 and is buried at St. Weburgh in Chester. Lucy
daughter of Ivo is also said to have married Roger FitzGerold de Romare.

Another site says "per genealogia fundatoris of Coventry Abbey, Lucia (Ivo's
wife) was the daughter of Earl Algar and sister and heiress of Earls Eadwin
and Morcar". It says the register of Spaulding Priory says "at his death
Turold left an heir, the aforesaid Lucy". (Mortua quia dicto Thoraldo
relicta sibi herede Lucia predicto). I'm not sure if this Turold is the
Torald as Abbot of Peterborough who King William appointed in 1071 around
the time when Earls Edwin and Morcar were killed aka Sheriff of
(Spaulding?). Or if Turold was actually Ivo, because I've seen him referred
to at Thorold, Yvon Taylboys and also (www.orme.info/appleby.html) as
Guillaume Ive Raoul de Taillebois who was the left hand brother of Fulk,
Count of Anjou.

Anyone know if this Fulk could be Fulk D'Aunou aka Lord of Aunou-le-Faucon
aka le Foulcon (per le Prevost), son of Baldric the German aka Baudry le
Teuton and his wife Gunnor d'Aunou? r was Fulk d'Aunou son of the first Sire
d'Aunou and a counsin of Richard de Courci and Martel de Bacqueville, the
son of Nicholas de Bacqueville-en-Caux, the eldest of Baldric's children?
(www.patnyc.com/conq/aunou.shtml)

Another tourist site (about Abbot Hall) says Abbot Hall goes back to Ivo
Taillebois who gave between 1090-1097 the Church of Kendall with its land
Kirkland to the newly founded Benedictine Abbey of St Mary at York. It says
that at the death of Ivo, Beatrice, his direct heir and daughter of his
marriage to Lucy, daughter of William Malet and Turold the Sheriff, that
Beatrice was Robert Malet's sister who married Ribald the half brother of
Count Alan.

I'd seen earlier that Ivo Tailebois's son Eldred aka Etret aka Ughtret was
not the son of Lucia, however I'm seeing people's sites now list him as
Lucia's instead of from a previous marriage of Ivo's. If Eldred was Lucia's
son, then wouldn't her inheritance have passed through him or any one of her
son's with Ivo instead of her son's via another marriage?

Another site says Rolf Taillebois and Azeline born abt 1014 in Mormandy had
a daughter Azeline Matilda Taillebois born abt 1044 who married Hugh de
Beauchamp and gives the source as "Some Early English Pedigrees British
942.2Dno" and "Royal Ancestors of some LDS Families" by Michael Call.

Deborah Thornsbury Keser

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